A Question of Balance...Single Action in .357 vs. .45 Colt.

[10-96]

[QUOTE10-96: What, pray tell, is an "NOK?"][/QUOTE] Yup, Next Of Kin.

I've had wonderments about this thread that I strongly considered keeping to myself- but as usual, I don't guess I have enough sense for that. I think it's a well said truism that 'balance' is a condition held in the eye of the beholder. What about all the times we've seen the term "Tuned, Well Tuned, Perfectly Tuned"? I wonder if perhaps there are more than a few folks who use that term- well, just for lack of a better term?

 

[44 AMP]

Balance is overrated. The attribute you want is the ability of the gun to "hang" on target as you grip it and bring it to eye level to align the sights. Sure, it can be too muzzle heavy, or too heavy in the grip. But balance is realy a bunch of ballyhoo.

Respectfully disagree. What is ballyhoo to you is an important thing to someone else.

for me, balance is a fairly important thing, yet it is something I cannot define, its just a matter of what feels better to me. And it is the feel of the gun in my hands that adds to, or detracts from my shooting pleasure.

As a personal example, I find that there is a noticeable difference in the balance between S&W L frame and N frame .357s. With equal barrel lengths, the guns are essentially identical in weight. Yet the balance (feel in my hands) is vastly different. The N frames feel "right" to me, and the L frames feel awkward (muzzle heavy).

A different shooter can have exactly the opposite experience, and be completely vaild, for the gun in his hands. And a third shooter can care about the "balance" not one whit. We're all a little different, and what feels wrong for me may be right for you, and if so, enjoy it!

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

so... is balance related to muzzle weight ???

I had a 10" barrel Taurus Raging Hornet, that is their big frame, double latch cylinder, with a full under lug barrel... well...with a full under lug 10" barrel, & the tiny 22 bore, that thing was so muzzle heavy, that I did not enjoy shooting it...

so a shorter barrel helps with a smaller bore, & I guess "balance" would be the tendency to tip up or down from too much, or lack of muzzle weight...

add to this, the more muzzle heavy a gun is, the less recoil the shooter will notice...

I agree with the recommendation you should try a shorter barrel in 357... unless you plan on shooting hotter loads, then you may want it a little more muzzle heavy, & also that you'll get used to it... unless you have a 10" full under lug 22

 

[Deja vu]

I have a Magnum Research BFR in 45-70 with a 10 inch barrel. It is very heavy but it balances well in my hand. I think there is more to balance than some people are letting on.

 

[Hal]

Recently I was able to put a New Vaquero in .45 Colt and one in .357 in my hand and was surprised at how much better the .45 Colt balanced (they were both 5.5 in barrels).

My question is how much does it affect shootability of the .357? I'm guessing you just get used to it over time and it ends up not making a lot of difference.

You know what?
I'd never considered the "balance" aspect of a .357 vs a .45LC before.

I happen to have identical (except for caliber) Ruger Blackhawks, one in .357 and the other in .45 Colt.
I can knock the knee of a gnat @ 25 yards w/the .45 Long Colt, but, can't hit the broad side of a barn w/the .357!

The .357 mag Blackhawk is the only gun I've ever shot that I do badly with.

It's not the gun - the gun works fine for other people & others shoot it well from a rest.
Even from a rest, I have trouble with that gun.

I'll have to study this "balance" thing a bit.

 

[44 AMP]

I'd say the balance, what is, and isn't "right" for you, and how much it matters is a very individual thing.

A friend of mine is deadly with a Colt snubnose. With a S&W, he can't hit the proverbial broad side of a barn. Same calibers, not, to my eye, all that much difference in the guns, but quite different in how he can shoot them.

You can learn to use anything. Something that feels right, from the start, usually means a better learning curve.

10-96, I don't know what, if any parts will interchange between the Vaquero and the New Vaquero. There may be some, I just don't know. I do know that Colt SAA grips will not work, the size is close, but the screw holes are in the wrong place.

 

[Bob Wright]

Here are two of my favorite Ruger .44s:



Both are Three Screw Super Blackhawks, .44 Magnum, one 7 1/2", the other 5" barrelled. Obviously, both guns will not have the same "balance" the longer gun balancing further forward, the shorter closer to the hand. I shoot both equally well, but for targets out fifty to one hundred yards, I grab the longer gun. For shorter range, its the 5" barrel. When selecting gun and load, I care not a whit about balance. Both guns hang on target for me equally well, the primary difference is the velocity difference, and there is roughly 200 fps difference in these two, and the sight radius.

Bob Wright

 

[vlavalle]

To get .357 or .45 Colt

I am a long time owner of a Ruger .357 Blackhawk (pre 1973 model, called a 3 screw model & I just got it upgraded by Ruger). It has a 6.5" barrel, which they do not appear to make anymore. I ue to quick draw with it, so the barrel length was not an issue. This has been an excellent hand gun, and it can shoot very powerful ammo (up to 800 muzzle ft/lbs). I have created an ammo specs Excel file showing various calibers and their ammo specs (muzzle velocity, bullet weight, muzzle energy, cost, with links as to where to buy it online, and lots more). If anyone is interested in this (to either help you buy a new gun or to just buy specific ammo) please contact me (or respond here) and I will send it to you, The calibers I cover now are: 9mm, .38 special, .357 Mag, .44 Colt, .44 Mag, .45 Long Colt, and 4-6 military weapons (rifles & cannons) for comparisons.

As for the balance issue, part of this depends on what you are use to shooting. Some people shoot mainly or exclusively 4.5" barreled hand guns, and others have 10" barrels! So, the balance issue goes far beyond what caliber to get. I suspect that when I get my new Ruger .45 Blackhawk Convertible (shoots both 45 Colt, also called Long Colt, as well as .45 ACP ammo) that it will feel slightly different from my .357 because o the barrel length.

Another issue impacting the 'balance' feel is the weight of the gun and it distribution. I suspect the actual weight distribution is fairly standard in today's hand guns. But barrel length may impact this also, so a Ruger Blackhawk 7.5" barrel (produces more powerful loads simply due to the barrel length), will feel very different for a Ruger Blackhawk 4.5". Again, this is not so much a caliber issue. The Ruger .357 Magnum up to the .44 Magnum use the same frame, so a .22 Ruger will feel very different!

I believe the bottom line is what do you want to accomplish with this hand gun. Do you ever want to go hunting and take down large wild life, or just small wild life, or just target practice? If you only do the latter, then the .357 is the best bet because you can readily get ammo, and at relatively low costs ($.52-$.75 per round new and under $.26-$.50 for .38 Special ammo), If you get a .45 Colt, the ammo varies a lot, but is typically around $.75-$1.50 per round. On another front, the .357 muzzle energy varies (depending on the cartridge & ammo manufacturer) from ~400 ft/lbs to 800 ft/lbs, while the .45 Colt varies from 300 ft/lbs (cowboy loads) up to 1,300 ft/lbs, almost as powerful as the 44 Magnum, and 50% more power than the greatest .357 new cartridge load.

One more last comment on how a hand gun feels - it is the grip. If you are looking beyond the Ruger Blackhawks, then the grip style vary GREATLY! But if you stick with the Ruger (or similar hand gun) then the texture of the grip AND ITS WIDTH will make a big difference. I changed the original Ruger grips on my hand gun to nice, thicker pearl grips. Not only does the gun look sharp and elegant, but it "feels" much nicer and is easier to hold and shoot. High power hand guns have a kick, and the handle has a lot to do with how much the gun moves in your hand.

So, my basic recommendation is to get the smaller caliber - the .357 Blackhawk unless you are going to definitely go "big" game hunting an need more power from the .45. One more thing to note - the Ruger .45 Blackhawk comes n 2 versions, and the second one is called the Convertible, This means it shoots both the 45 Long Colt ammo, AND .45 ACP ammo. To accomplish this, it comes with a second cylinder, one just for the .45 ACP ammo. This ammo you can sometimes get for $.50 per round also, thus reducing the cost of ownership of the 45 Colt. This is the model I am planning on buying soon - the 5.5" Ruger Blackhawk 45 Convertible!

Vincent 06012014

 

[rcp1936]

I went with both

The 45 balances better