a question for the attorneys among us

[joecad]

thanks for the lively discussion

thanks for the lively discussion, i like to think that law abiding citizens using leathal force would be protected by the system....OUR SYSTEM......but mistakes do happen.....by the way....were there any attorneys who responded or was it just us everyday (notice that i did not say mormal )citizens?

 

[leadcounsel]

I'm not familiar with the practice of removing the firing pin safety you're askin of, but I am an attorney and I'll give my .02.

Using lethal force is lethal force, regardless of the manner in using the force. As long as the WEAPON is not illegal (i.e. a machine gun or sawn off shotgun without proper papers), then I think it would be immaterial whether you modified your gun. Bottom line, it was self defense / defense of your home (depending on the law in your state), you intentionally aimed your gun and pulled the trigger and shot the perpetrator. The case will be won or lost (or not pursued at all) based on the justifiability of your actions and not the modification you made to you weapon (again, assuming the modification is legal).

Now, if the gun fired accidently due to your modification and hurt/killed another that's a different story. If your gun was in original condition and was on safe and it malfunctioned, then it is a products liability case agains the maker, not a suit/criminal charges against you necessarily. However, if you modified it and it was no longer safe then it's no longer a products liability case against the maker, it's a homicide charge against you the owner/modifier.

 

[joecad]

thanks legal counsel

thanks legal counsel....just the crystalization of facts that i was looking for.

 

[Doggieman]

CA lawyer here

I'd have to agree with co-counsel above and add: removing safeties goes to tort actions -- ie being sued for negligence. Shooting somebody with full knowledge of doing so goes to both tort and criminal law, but the tort aspect is intentional rather than negligent.

Short answer: unless there's a statute prohibiting it, the DA don't care. And if he tried to bring it up in court, your atty would say objection: irrelevant. DA would have to show that removing the safety somehow shows that you were contemplating shooting someone or something like that. It's possible, but not something you should worry about.

Worry about accidentally dropping the thing and shooting yourself or a loved one.

 

[PSE]

no one in the US charged with a crime after defending themselves has ever been convicted based on the disactivation of a guns safety or by using handloads.
thats all BS gunshop comando crapola in the highest Saturday morning 4th cup of coffee ranting.
If you shoot someone while defending yourself the shooting will be judged on its own merit. not if you had a permit. no if the gun was legal not is it was full of hot handloads.
Remember a fellow named bernard Getz. he was convicted ONLY ofcriminal possession of an unlicensed weapon and spent 250 days in jail. Not murder or manslaughter. those actions were judged on thier own merit and the illigal possesion on its.

 

[andersencs]

It depends...

While most jurisdictions do not hold one guilty for intentionally firing at some one out of reasonable fear of imminent death or grievous bodily harm, the defender must be always mindful of civil liability.

The practice of modifying or removing safety devices is inherently risky. Any competent plaintiff's attorney will file suit alleging that you shot the intrudent acidentally. Said opportunistic bottom feeder will claim that deviation from the factory specifications constitutes a per se negligent action on your part.

Unfortunately, there are gullible judges and juries who have bought this rationale and have bankrupted good and law-abiding people. Go figure, O.J. is free.

At any rate, the unquestionable and best practice is to refrain from any modification of any of the safety devices on guns, aircraft, powerboats and cars. On a M1911, these parts would be, fundamentally, the firing pin safety, the grip safety and the safety levers. Now, before everyone gasps and tells me I must be wrong about springs and grip safeties, please allow me to explain. It depends.:barf: As long as the parts you swap in are used throughout the injustry and meet an objective standard of acceptability, you will be less likely to be found at fault.

Nonetheless, as I tell all of my clients, "anyone can be sued for anything. Whether the plaintiff's case proceeds to trial is within the jurisdiction and caprice of the court." It is best to consult your local insurance defense attorney and District Attorneys office before modifying your firearm to any significant extent.