a question for the attorneys among us

J

joecad

New member
i have been reading on a lot of different forums about folks removing the firing pin safety from their semi automatics.....for 1911's that means it functions like the older models that do not have this device.
what are the legal consequences if one of these guns were to be used in a home defense situation that caused a perputrator fatality?.
 
I'm not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV, but IMO it can't be good for your chances at trial, if an antigun bigot DA decides to charge you with murder/manslaughter/interfering with a scumbag criminal thug's livelihood.
 
Well, this leads to an interesting question: How is anyone going to know? I mean if the shooting is legit and you don't mention it...? How many cops are likely to know by model and know, and think, to check it? Seems like more of a non-issue, most of the time.
 
Well if you dropped a 1911 and it hit the ground and discharged and hit the perp you might be in trouble if you disconnected the firing pin safety in California. Usually this is done on pistols that use a series 80 type pin safety. Some claim that it messes up the trigger pull if it is a poorly put together or not fitted right. This is a passive safety sytem. Some comapnies use a light titanium firing pin/heavy spring combo to prevent this. Another method is the swartz safety used by Kimber.
 
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I think the DA could find out. In some states they will do whatever it takes to put you behind bars (:( ), whether that means sending the weapon off in hopes of finding some modification like that, is for you to decide.
 
i tend to agree

i tend to agree...the overzealous da's wanting to make a name for his/herself do bother me a bit.
but allow me to take this to another level (muddy the water abit)....i hope you all will abide.
here in kentucky, there is a bill up which among other things puts into place the castle doctrine....which says that person threaten by a perpetrator committing an unlawful act is not duty bound to retreat and may use leatal force.....and further will be protected from civil and/or criminal charges.
so what do you think folks....does this have a bearing?
 
Absolutely it has merit. We have handed so much of our lives over to the criminals. I have been told "I can't travel here", or "I can't go there", or I shouldn't be doing something completely legal because I am putting myself in harms way. The last place I will retreat is MY home. I will not wait to find out if the person breaking in my window at 3:00 am means to harm to my family, or myself. By the time I do find out it could be to late.
 
For the attorneys amongst us...

Where did that imply, "I am not one, but here is my uninformed opinion anyway";furthermore, "my state is gonna pass a law that will ...".

Any bar member care to weigh in?
 
i guess my real question is

i guess my real question is do you think that laws like the castle doctrine will be able to hold the line against those who are hell bent on trying to prosecute law abiding citizens who are forced to use leathal force to protect themselves, their families or their property?
 
i agree that there are so many models without them

i agree that there are so many models without them but does it provide the overzealous with a finger to point?
 
Geez fellows you still have a manual safety on your 1911 that you have to use if it is being carried cocked and locked.

How is that going to sound in court?

hopefully the defense attorney will make him look like an idiot.
 
I always wonder if the guys who always post about the "overzealous" DAs have ever actually had a conversation with a DA, or if they even know any DAs?? Unless the shooting is an accident, the safety is a non-issue, both in civil and criminal court.

Come-to-think-of-it, I wonder how many guys' posting about the "overzealous" DAs have even been in court or even personally know lawyers and judges?
 
as a matter of fact

as a matter of fact, i trained in one of my martial arts classes with an ada and an investigator for the da......they were ok guys but like any profession there are some that want to make a name for themselves......its part of the mix of humanity.
 
Oh my gosh, here we go again! Am I going to get in more trouble if I altered my gun? Will I get in hot water for using reloads to defend myself? Will I get prosecuted for defending myself with a 357 magnum when I had a perfectly good 22 at home?

All these questions can be answered very simply: If you are otherwise justified in your actions, it really isn't going to make any difference whether you have modified your gun or used handloads instead of factory ammo.

if an antigun bigot DA decides to charge you with murder/manslaughter/interfering with a scumbag criminal thug's livelihood.
Click to expand...

Good grief! Don't you think prosecutors have enough to do dealing with the criminals? Most prosecutors are overworked, and don't have time to go around looking for ways to put otherwise law abiding citizens in jail. Although some prosecutors may be overzealous on occasion, this is far from the rule. In any event, before someone can be tried for a felony, a grand jury indictment is required. While it's said that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich if the prosecutor asks them to, in truth, it's very seldom that anyone gets indicted in a self defense situation unless there's some question as to whether the action was in fact justified. You're not going to have much future as a district attorney if you specialize in putting your constituents and supporters in jail.

Regards,
JayCee
 
Fyi

The 1911 pistol (pre-series 80) uses a floating firing pin, which is shorter than the distance it travels, and a spring, to return it to the rear after hitting the primer. The spring also prevents the pin from moving forward due to inertia. You can get the gun to fire from dropping it, but it has to fall about 30 feet (to build up enough velocity to overcome both inertia and the firing pin spring), AND land muzzle down and ON A HARD SURFACE (to provide an instant stop so the pin would accelerate at max speed). Now, since the muzzle is in contact with the hard surface at the time of discharge, a ricochet is a possibility in this unlikely situation, as the bullet would be fired directly into the hard surface (like concrete, for example).

It is virtually impossible to discharge a properly functional 1911 pistol by dropping it. This has been tested by numerous labs (H.P. White Labs, for one). Even if the gun lands so that something presses on the trigger (hammer cocked), the grip safety system will keep the gun from discharging.

I believe Colt added the series 80 firing pin block to meet some import restrictions (like into the Democratic Peoples Republic of California), not because of any real need.

Modern lever action rifles have had additional safeties incorporated into their designs, in an effort to keep lawyers from sueing, because they are "not safe enough". I fail to understand how something that has been in daily use for 50years, or even 100 years could suddenly be "unsafe" when it wasn't before.
The mind boggles.:confused:
 
Very bad news in civil court if that gun in involved in a ND or accidental shooting. Do you want to lose your house because you are to lazy to train yourself to disable the safey every time you draw your weapon.

My legal .02
 
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