A question for hunters

Now my question is... where exactely is the "sport" in all of this?

Here in Alaska, I don't know anyone who uses stands, scented underwear, etc. We DO wear camo though.

I have to say we're pretty lucky as we get 5 tags, our deer season lasts from Aug1 - Jan 1 and it doesn't matter what we get after Oct 1. Aug and Sept are buck only.

I will ask this though Ladybug; Have you ever tried hunting deer? They have the advantage of being able to hear and smell you from very long distances. They're quick, smart and jumpy.

If you haven't tried it, go out and give it a try and then you tell us if there's any sport in it or not.

And remember, just seeing a deer doesn't count. That's only part of the challenge during hunting season. Now you have to be able to get a good shot on it.

We're I'm at, shots over 100 yrds are VERY rare as it is a dense rain forest. If you can't jump-shoot while climbing VERY steep, slippery inclines then you won't get one.
 
A few decades back I got into a squabble with a non-shooter, anti-hunter. He explained to me the unfairness of the "no skill needed" in my using a scoped rifle. Exasperated, I made an offer: I'd set up my Nikon with crosshairs on the focal plane shutter, and mount the camera on a rifle stock. I'd set up a trigger, and add weight and balance the rig to the same as my 9-1/2-pound rifle.

I'd take him to my deer lease for two weekends, and he could be a walking hunter with me.

If he brought me a print with the crosshairs in place such that the "shot" would have killed a running deer, I'd pay him $1,000. If he couldn't, he'd pay me $1,000. I spotted him does and yearlings, since I was limited to bucks...

That ended that nonsense.

:D, Art
 
Kinda one point that has been emphasized over and over - Cabela's has all these things for sale. I don't have them in my possession...

I know very few people who even have a majority of the things you've listed, let along use them all. Takes too much work and the fun outta gettin ginto the woods and enjoying it all.

And why don't folks raise deer on a private field? Same reason - I ain't got one. Likely if I did, I still wouldn't raise 'em as you described, but would allow wild ones to exist off the land naturally. That's what conservation and outdoorsmanship is all about - not killing game just cause you can.
 
Deer hunting in rural NC

I've hunted deer all my life and killed quite a few. I've "been deer hunting" many, many times when I killed nothing. On our club in the heart of deer country, deer are very plentiful, but that is NO guarantee that you will even see a deer, much less one worth shooting. I have never killed as many as my season license will allow. The pleasure I derive comes from hosting other people who enjoy our beautiful hunting land, watching the seasonal and animal activity, taking an exceptionally large buck , having my gun in hand, supplying myself and friends with venison, and just being outdoors. The hunters on our club land who hunt from tree stands are well-read, due to having a book handy in the stand (a box or climbing stand). Since we can use rifles, the club rules require we be elevated when using a rifle; otherwise I sometimes hunt sitting on a log with a shotgun or handgun. We have to wear orange, according to state law. We have an understanding that the twelve of us and our guests will not shoot small bucks. We always pass up several small spikes, cowhorns, or four-pointers. In eastern NC, you don't have to wear or use fancy gadgets, you really just have to be here and go hunting on a semi-regular basis to make some kills. However, I will opt for the warmest clothing Cabela's sells in our cold, humid winter climate. Use enough gun, buy a license, hunt where you are welcome and legal, eat what you kill, wear appropriate clothing for the weather, and you are good to go. The biggest deer I have ever seen were killed by grizzled old men wearing multiple flannel shirts and canvas hunting coats (sometimes with a bottle of Peach Snappes in the pocket) using single or double barrel 12 gauges with buckshot , sitting on a stump at the edge of a peanut field on a frosty fall day; this was in a bygone era.
 
Ok,

I waited a few days to reply to this...'are you really hunting?'

Yes...if you use everything in Cabela's and sat atop one of the magazines inside a central heated stand...you are still hunting, otherwise they'd call it 'shooting'.

Some hunts are easier than others - in game abundant areas (regardless of the quarry) people often view the hunter as someone taking advantage of an overpopulation of animals. They rarely view it as a management tool to prevent deer/car accidents, mountain lion attacks by your back yard swimming pool, or crows destroying acres of farmland.

We as the dominant species with opposable thumbs, choose to manage our fish and wild game populations. We (most north americans) have learned from the mistake of our ancestors concerning overharvesting of species is a painful. We still have a lot of educating to do - whales, rainforests etc - but being a prohunter doesn't mean you are anti-nature. It means that you are choosing to actively participate as a management control.

The tools you describe from the catalogue are not necessities - but they may be nice to have. It would be like someone owning everything in a Fredericks of Hollywood catalogue for their marriage - I mean , you're not gonna use it all - but you could experiment with some of it 'season after season'.

Like many of the other poster have said, "If it's so easy, you try it." And, I mean really try it - in a public wildlife management area, not a park with hand fed domesticated deer.

If you are turned off by deer hunting, then try hunting a squirrel or crow, or some other small game. Not the one's you see at home...go to a WMA and see how many you even get a shot at.

The bottom line is, hunting is not a guarantee that game will be brought home. I enjoy the 'hunt' the stalking the walking the teaching my sons about the box turtle we just stepped over, and the rattlesnake that we need to avoid. We often hunt in the woods - sometimes we bring stuff home - we are always successful at 'hunting (ie exploring the lands)' sometimes, we even get to use the 7 lbs of gun we're using to harvest a meal.

Respectfully,
Beetle
 
>>>>>The tools you describe from the catalogue are not necessities - but they may be nice to have. It would be like someone owning everything in a Fredericks of Hollywood catalogue for their marriage <<<<<

I dunno, just as in hunting, I'd say that a guy who relies too much on mail-order marital aids is probably lacking some basic skills...
 
Seems to me the myriad "goodies & toys" bit is not particularly different from a mechanic who's a tool-freak, spending a lot of his paycheck with the Snap-On man. Or the home woodworker who keeps Sears&Sawbuck in bidness, whether or not he actually builds all those home projects.

I think it's more common among guys who didn't grow up in a rural setting, too. You can browse through a catalog and dream about "gonna do", come next season--even though you're stuck in a city, with some desk job. (BTDT) Some of it derives from the average guy's vulnerability to the advertising techniques developed by the world's best psychologists: "Madison Avenue".

My own experience from messin' around in the woods since sixty years ago tells me that little of that stuff creates any unfair advantage over Bambi. No matter how much of it is bought and used, a little wiggle, a bit of a cough, and the party is over for a while. And Bambi rarely looks up into trees; I've had too many of them never notice me when they lie down under my stand and began chewing their cud. (Which, by the way, is hilarious to watch.)

All in all, it's pretty small potatoes...It's sorta like car racing: If you're not spending the grocery money on it, "Hit don' make no nevermind, nowhow."

:), Art
 
Keith...I agree...

But,....

Anti-hunters use this argument all of the time - the 'unfair game advantage' to make someone feel guilty about their sport. I guess they may feel better if man ran around in a loin cloth and chased deer with a buck knife - that would be sporting.

I'm just trying to say...I wear camo, carry a gun, and a squirrel call and a duck call. I haven't purchased any of the other items mentioned. But hey, If cabela's were to give me a catalogue of inventory then I wouldn't decline it either; and probably, would never be able to use it all - but I'd try. The same applies to Frederick's ;)

I mean, really all one needs is a single shot H&R in 3006 and one in 12 gauge to kill nearly everything in North America, but we spend lots on nicer equipment - because it's fun. Persons shouldn't feel guilty about their purchases.

I think Art makes the greatest truth to the sporting catalogues...If I'm not fishing, or visiting the Wal-mart fishing aisle, then I'm browsing a Bass Pro catalogue...I guess its just human nature.
 
OK, here is something that is worthy of purchase out of the Cabelas catalog: ANYTHING GORETEX!!! Man that stuff is the greatest stuff ever made. Coupled with poly propylene long underwear, you're able to comfortably sit all day long in warm and dry skivies!

Where I hunt, it doesn't get real cold, but it can get down to the 50's and after sitting an hour or two at 50F can make it seem like -30. You really can get cold.

Also, the dew just soaks your feet when you walk out to where you'll be hunting. I like warm, dry feet, so I have gore-tex boots that I was issued by the Army. I still need gore-tex pants, but I'm working on that. I'll probably go up to Ft. Hood and find them surplus.

Goretex makes it easy to sit and enjoy nature all day long. I don't even shoot all the deer I see. I probably let 50 go for every one I actually shoot, and that means I spend a lot of time just sitting at the base of a tree or up a short tree.

It might be fun to ridicule those who buy the RealTree cammo couches, but any man who has a well-stocked wardrobe of gore-tex has my envy.
 
Few years back, I bought a suit of camo, fleece Gore-Tex from Cabella's.

Wanted the camo (due to turkey hunting - pattern looks like a Ponderosa pine tree trunk), wanted the fleece 'cause my backpacking Gore-Tex was the basic outer shell nylon & way too noisy for anything sneak-hunting.

Wanted the Gore_tex because it is one fantastic wind-breaker & keeps me dry when hunting in snowy conditions to -10/20 below zero.

A fine combo.

Scents? nope. Have shot deer/elk while smoking a cigarette or hanging out over a camp fire - wind blows scent to 'em & if blowing the other way = they can't smell it.

Scope? yup. My eyes aren't any longer & besides, a scope allows me better precision.

If I want to "be sporting," I'll use my recurve & take a 6X elk off the deck during a break of CNN.

;)
 
The hunting stuff that they sell in the Cabela's catalog is no different than the almost infinite array of fishing stuff that they sell. And all of the items are designed to do the same thing, i.e. catch humans. The criticism of the hunting stuff comes up because deer are so wuvable and snugglwy. Besides, when the "where is the sport?'' in fishing argument is made, most people break out into hysterical laughter.

I know people with all the gadgets and gizmos in the world that have never gotten a deer. They still go out, year after year, and try to bag a deer. Where is the lack of sport in that? In the original sense of the word "sport" before it was perverted to be a synonym for game, e.g. football, baseball, hockey, etc...

I grew up hunting without anything more than a .22/.410 over/under and a single shot 16 ga. The birds, squirrels, rabbits, and deer I brought home helped to feed my family. Don't like it? Tough.
 
...I mean, when you're sitting in the woods, in your heated clothing, on a padded seat, are you really get that much of an "outdoors" experience? If you've got an arsenal of tools to attract the deer, as well as tools to help you locate the game, and more tools to guarantee an accurate shot, are you really "hunting"?...
Click to expand...

I can only speak about hunting in Minnesota or Wisconsin.

I guess I could "experience" the outdoors better if I didn't have insultated clothing, hand warmers and a padded seat, but then I'd probably also experience frostbite. Warm clothing lets you stay out longer in the -5 to 30 degree temperatures (sometimes colder) common during upper midwest deer seasons. A $10 padded seat lets me sit still under a big tree for a long time -- sometimes long enough to see a deer, pine martin, bear, owl, eagle, hawk, snowshoe rabbit, moose, wolf, or even a chickadee landing on the bill of my hat. I'd say this is quite the outdoor experience.

Some of the scents and other gimmicks may attract deer, but deer in the woods look like...the woods. Outside of being in the right place at the right time (the real art of deer "hunting" by the way), you need to continually look for movement in the woods. A little ear flicker might reveal a deer 20 yards away, but it's more likely you won't see the deer as they move within yards of you. A scope or binoculars do help, but mostly they just help as our eyes get older. Any kind of optics also reduce your field of view.

I'm not sure what tools can help locate game. You use your eyes, brain and maybe a topographical map to look for sign and likely deer paths. A GPS gets you back to the good spots and back to camp without getting lost. It sure can't tell you where the deer are. The only tools I think might possibly actually locate game are close air support or a thermal scope -- which I'm sure are as illegal as shining deer.

I don't know about "guarantees" with any shooting aid, but if you can't take an accurate shot, you shouldn't take the shot. If a shooting stick or scope helps, more power to ya.

As other have suggested, I think it's very worthwhile for you to get out deer hunting and experience the difficulty and magic in spotting a deer in a place where you can actually take a shot. It's a lot different than the hunting shows on TV.
 
OK, here is something that is worthy of purchase out of the Cabelas catalog: ANYTHING GORETEX!!! Man that stuff is the greatest stuff ever made.

It may be the greatest stuff ever made for the lower 48, but in a short time, you'll be soaked to the bone if you wore it in Prince William Sound Alaska. We can pick out the tourists by their soaked through goretex jackets. In a rain forest where we get 3x the precipitation of Seattle, that stuff just doesn't work.

I totally agree with you on the poly propylene long underwear. Man, that stuff is nice.
 
Ladybug, I'd say there have been plenty of good answers given. I further think it's now time to tell us if you feel the answers seem reasonable and satisfactory to you.

Otherwise, there is no point in continuing this thread.

Art
 
I see. Phone the moose; invite him over to debate the comments on some radio talk show? Y'all got some local equivalent of Rush Limbaugh?

:), Art
 
Lady Bug states, among other stupid things:Scopes so you don't really have to know how to aim well


Which pretty much sums up her knowledge of hunting. After having the resource of this forum at her disposal, and to come up with this list of inanities tend to clue one in to her intent.
 
Hey, Sal, are meese Liberal or Conservative? (This came up, recently, at an uncalled meeting of the GhostTown Porch Sittin', Spittin' and Whittlin' Society. The debate raged for hours' and hours' worth of beer, to no conclusion. Probably due to a lack of meese.)

Art
 
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