A question for hunters

L

Ladybug

New member
I was looking at my Cabela's catalog (this is the GENERAL catalog, not even the specific hunting one) tonight, and I have a question for any of you hunters out there... it may sound like I'm being a smart aleck here, but I really am curious.

What I found in Cabela's was:

Full camo clothing that would fool any human, much less a deer

Special lined under garmets that mask your scent (some are even heated for your comfort)

Seats, towers, stands, whatever that are also very well camouflaged (and comfortable) so you don't have to move

Very realistic decoys

Scent marking chemicals to attract deer

Deer feeders

Special fertilizers for the land to ensure big, well-antlered deer

Deer calls that replicate lost cow calls, the sound of herds, etc. (not just some whistle or something -- a huge audio system with a pre-recorded CD)

A game-finder and ear pieces so that you don't even have to notice the deer yourself

"Steady Sticks" -- basically tripods so that you don't have to hold your weapon steady

Scopes so you don't really have to know how to aim well

And of course this doesn't include the technology of the weapons themselves.

Now my question is... where exactely is the "sport" in all of this? Why not just domesticate deer and keep a herd, like you would a bunch of cows? You could just raise them to come to you by name, and then one day you could just go into your pasture, call one, and shoot it point-blank... I mean, when you're sitting in the woods, in your heated clothing, on a padded seat, are you really get that much of an "outdoors" experience? If you've got an arsenal of tools to attract the deer, as well as tools to help you locate the game, and more tools to guarantee an accurate shot, are you really "hunting"?
 
Forgive me...

Okay, as I was reading your initial question, Ladybug, I told myself I wasn't going to post, because I have a feeling you are going to get flamed for asking an honest question, and I didn't want to be associated with it. But, your honest question deserves an honest attempt at an answer.

Some of those toys sound pretty neat, don't they? :D I know very few people that buy all of those things and use them on their hunt. But, a company wouldn't make them if people weren't buying them. I'll try to address the ones I have used, the ones I wish I used, the ones I will never use, and my reasons behind each.

Camo(clothes, sent covers, etc.: Never used it. I hunt in Jeans, and bright orange vest. Even during Muzzleloader Season. I have more fear of some of my fellow 'Hunters' than I do desire to sneak up on a dear/elk. But, all these concealment devices ARE a neccessity for Bow Hunters...I would never question one of them being in full get up.

Seats, stands, towers: Never used one of these either. Just not the way it is done around here. A tree stand is tough to use in Sage Brush country. But, I have friends in the Northeast and Upper Midwest that do. It gets you up out of the deers line of sight.
I have to add that Stand Hunting always has seemed a bit boring to me. I know in the thick Northern Woods that the look, listen stalk thin wouldn't work. Just not my style.

All the lures/ scents/ decoys/ calls: Never used them either. Once again, I think of them as primarily a Bow Hunters tools(Blame it all on the Bow Hunters, that's the ticket ;) ) Really, I have a lot of respect for bow hunters...tough job)

Steady Sticks? Never used them, but I do use what ever nature provides me to steady my rifle, whether black powder, or 7mm Rem Mag. Why? With all kidding aside, it allows me to be more confident in my shot and makes it more likely that I will drop my target with as little suffering as possible.

Scope? I will grant you that the crosshairs of a scope are easier to master than iron sights, but please don't think that means we don't have to aim well. We do have to worry about breath control. At 300 yards, you would be amazed how far off target just a little trembling would put you. :D I'm guessing you have never had Buck Fever. We have to do range estimation, something I am Horrible at. Yes, you can buy laser rangefinders...I never have.

Now, as for if this is still a 'sport'. Ladybug, some folks aren't in it for the sport. Some people are more interested in filling their tags and their freezers than enjoying the outdoors. As I stated in another thread, with the rising cost of licences and tags, I really can't blame them for using every legal advantage open to them. Even then, hunter success rates are FAR from 100%, so I guess it is sport.

As for sport and competition, in Modern Firearms Season, the only sport and competition is with the other hunters. That's why I stopped doing modern. It has gotten pretty darn cut-throat out there.
 
The inherent unfairness in hunting isn't in the equipment, it is that a human's gray matter is far more effective than a deer's. The equipment is merely an extension of that fact. Is it unfair to a mouse that an owl can see so well?

Concerning domestication: I believe that hunting doesn't necessarily have a survival based function in many people's lives. Neither does watching films, reading books, or eating tasty food. The point is one of pleasure and fulfillment. It is extremely enjoyable for many of us to be in the field. Also it is more satisfying to eat meat that was killed by your own hand. It can bring families closer. Yet another added benefit is the knowledge of your own autonomy. If you've never gone hunting its hard to describe the feeling. It would be like asking, "What does a piece of chocolate taste like?"
 
The main reason that I think Cabela's sells a lot of that stuff is you have people who spend ~ $3000-$5000 on a hunt, and that doesn't include African safaris. If it were me I would want every possible advantage so that I could have something to show for all my money that I spent. Another thing is that having all that stuff really doesn't make you a great hunter. I will guarantee that if you give someone who has never hunted before all that stuff and put them in the woods they will come back empty handed. Its not about how much stuff you have, its whether or not you know how to use it properly. Someone on this forum said that an unusual or out of place sent/attractant is worse than nothing at all.
Anyway to get back to your question, I don't consider hunting a sport. I hunt for the meat and the relaxing times I have in the woods. Hunting isn't a sport it's a way of life.
 
I don't use all that junk, but I don't hunt for sport either. Hunting is not a sport to me any more than driving, though I often enjoy both while I'm doing them and though I know many people out there DO think of them as sports.

I hunt deer because they taste good. :)
 
The guys who wear camo while hunting illegally on my family's land do so to avoid being spotted by us, not to avoid being spotted by the deer (or coyote, or bear, or pheasant, or cougar). Heck, after carefully concealing the truck or the boat (the property is on Lake Roosevelt) in the bushes, hiking or ATVing past multiple "No Hunting" and "No Trespassing" signs, and otherwise making a considerable effort at being a successful poacher, it really bites to be found out by the angry property owner (my father-in-law, armed with a shotgun, his dog, and a cellphone with the state game warden on speed-dial). Some of these guys DO build treestands...which always seems amazingly arrogant to me, and which we promptly tear down and destroy.

The deer who live on the property are so trusting they will walk within a few yards of us, or anyone else. No surprise that they're a target of poachers year after year.
 
Hmmm. I've tried some of that stuff. Deer scent? I never have noticed much difference when I use it or not. Same with soaps and detergents that are scent-free. I've used them and killed deer. And I've also gotten skunked. On the other hand, I've hunted using scented soaps and detergents. And killed deer. And have gotten skunked. I don't bother today. Camouflage? Yeah, I use it. Full bow hunter gear-face mask and all. Where I hunt, the deer look up in stands...they've learned. If you're not camouflaged...they're gone. I also stalk in the southeastern woods. I kill about one deer a year stalking. I'd probably learn to do better if that was the only way I hunted. But my stand? I'm sitting on a five gallon bucket.

Last year, I killed ten deer. My friends and I ate them all. The year before, I was entirely unsuccessful. Same hunting grounds. Everyone that hunted with me that year, killed a deer.

About all the scope does is allow me to take a shot at longer ranges with confidence that I will make a humane kill instead of wounding a deer.

Sticks have been used for a few centuries now. I think they're grandfathered:D
 
...and some people are raising them like cattle. There are many high fenced ranches in this part of the country that breed and raise deer, solely to sell them to people with big wallets that want a trophy to hang on the wall. You can rattle a feed bucket and they almost run up to you.

No that is not sport. Its business. I wouldn't pay for it but I don't try to critisize those that do.

You must also realize that some hunters/people are gear junkies. I'm a gear junkie myself, I'm just not much of a hunter (except birds)
I have more stuff than is necessary to go along with my various shotguns, rifles and pistols. Its a evil addiction that sucks up all your money. I don't think there is a cure either.
 
It's the economy, stupid :D

(not really infering you are stupid, Ladybug - it's just a quote)

How would we keep our economy rolling if hunters just wore any old clothes they happened to have around, and used the old 30-30 handed down from their dad? (not even any place to put batteries) :)
 
I had this beautiful post explaining all when my computer locked up while I was looking for the following quote. So you'll have to do without the other stuff. I choose to hunt with a longbow and wooden arrows because I often think like you that some hunters have turned it into a shooting gallery.

The Hunters horn sounds early for some, I thought, later for others. For some unfortunates, prisoned by city sidewalks and sentenced to a cement jungle more horrifying than anything to be found in Tanganyika, the horn of the hunter never winds at all. But deep in the guts of most men is buried the involuntary response to the hunter's horn, a prickle of the nape hairs, an acceleration of the pulse, an atavistic memory of his fathers, who killed first with stone, and then with club, and then with spear, and then with bow, and then with gun, and finally with formulae. How meek the man is of no importance; somewhere in the pigeon chest of the clerk is still the vestigial remnant of the hunter's heart; somewhere in his nostrils the half-forgotten smell of blood. There is no man with such impoverishment of imagination that at some time he has not wondered how he would handle himself if a lion broke loose from a zoo and he were forced to face him without the protection of bars or handy, climbable trees.

This is a simple manifestation of ancient ego, almost as simple as the breeding insinct, simpler than the urge for shelter, because man the hunter lives basically in his belly. It is only when progress puts him in the business of killing other men that the bloodlust surges upward to his brain. And even war is still regarded by the individual as sport - the man himself against a larger and more dangerous lion.

Robert Ruark. "The Horn of the Hunter"

that pretty much sums it up for me.
 
i have had deer walk right up to me while dressed head to toe in Floresent orange sitting on a 4 foot log in the middle of a clearing. Most of the time the dang things wake me up from a sound nap and i have to wave my arms to get them to notice me.

alot of the gee gaws are junk that people buy because when yer bored waiting at walmart for someone to get out of the yard goods department ya gotta buy something.

i fear loosing my camo binoculars, camo flashlight and camo thermos inside my camo backpack

:D
 
Stickslinger, I'm with you. I hunt with a recurve, I tried compounds & found them too gadget intensive. I have to admit I was a "Tech weinie" once, Bought alot of toys & gadgets. I realized the toys didn't make the hunt anymore enjoyable. I started thinking about this when I saw a guy mounting a laser sight on his bow. Somebody once told me in a bar where hunters went , you can tell the Guides from the hunters easily. The guides have the duct tape repaired vests & the hunters have the matching gortex suits. But like in a earlier post, Its big business! I shoot guns for sport only, I stopped hunting with them.I been on Some hunts look like military operations, not my idea of hunting.
 
The cammo isn't for hunting. We wear shorts jeans or regular clothes hunting. Once we kill them though, we go change into the cammo, get blood all over by gutting the animal and dressing it in the cammo. The added hair is a nice touch. The cammo is also useful to distinguish us hunters from the black helicopter crowd at gunshows. While I believe in the black helicopter crowd, I don't want the secret government agents to make me, so I dress up like a hunter and prowl the tables at gunshows. The vendors know I am a BHG (Black Helicopter Guy) because I know the secret handshake and proper phrasology.

We then load the animal in back of our $40,000.00 Ford F350's with all the gizmos and we even load our ATV's and take them into town to BS at the meat processor's place with other hunters who did likewise. The cammo is just to show that our wives were cool with it and let us go out and buy stuff. Or at least that we're alpha males and buy it anyway.

As for scents, they are used like cologne. Never use them prior to hunting though because other deer fear the dominant buck or doe you smell like. Better yet, after the kill put it on so other hunters will think you used it to kill yours and you will thwart their hunt next time and guarantee more animals for yourself next year!

Laser range finders are awesome, but I don't need it because my feeder and mineral block is only 30 feet away and I can throw a knife that far! Heck, most of my deer are taken with a pistol, but when I am bored, I might use a sling-shot, or even chase them down (the fence makes it hard to escape quickly) and club them with my .557 Weatherby Antiaircraft magnum rifle. I have to club them with it because each round has to be stolen from the secret UN Stockpiles, and thus are more expensive than the rifle themselves.

The cigar holders in real-tree hardwoods are cool too. Just in case you needed to smoke a stogie while hunting but didn't want the wiley whitetail to see your cigar case or lighter (which incidentally is also realtree hardwoods). I also have a nice 1/2 gallon flask in case I get thirsty for some single malt scotch, but I couldn't find it in realtree, so I am using the old woodlands camo pattern.

My deerstand just got hooked up to electricity though this year, so now I have A/C and Heat. Last year I had to use a propane heater and it got so hot I had to hunt in my undies! I also have an internet hookup and digital camera so I can film the kill and email it to my friends prior to getting down out of the deer blind to go get the animal. I also have a small 'fridge and microwave (in realtree of course!) inside my blind so that if I need to pop some popcorn or chill a bottle of champagne (Laurent is coming out with realtree labels next year!), I don't have to inconvienience myself. Speaking of inconvienience, my septic tank will be installed next thursday, and the plumbers are coming out to put in the john where my lazy-boy (also realtree) is. That way I can kill two birds with one stone so to speak! While they don't sell toilets in realtree, I purchased tape so I can still get it right.

The best part about hunting season is to go out and spend the money in anticipation. New trucks, trailers that match the color of the ATV's, and laser range finders and infared, heat-seeking bullets are just some of the things that keeps this country's economy the envy of those Nancy-boy French! And after I've killed my limit (which equates to about 75 lbs of meat off the bone) I go home to a grateful wife who is proud of her man for saving the family grocery budget by getting up early and putting food on the table!
 
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Only non hunters think it's easy. Kinda like a non-shooter thinking they can pick up any gun and become a Green Beret in a seconds notice.
I've cross bow/shotgun hunted for quite a few years, and I hunt with folks that have hunted their entire lives, and as was stated earlier, I don't know anyone who buys most of that stuff. A cottage industry was built around the sport, just like any other. I see docile deer standing around to (usually does) - when I'm not hunting. Funny how that works. It's kinda like the way fly's sense when you pick up a fly swatter. If you don't have some skill, and a lot of patience, you won't get a deer regardless of how many gadgets you've got. Even very experienced and capable hunters have lean years when pursuing a trophy buck.

Get out and try it. There's nothing so thrilling and easy as walking a mile through the thickets and gulleys, and crossing creeks, in the dark, in 30 degree weather. High tech only works to a point.
 
Next Friday will be my first time deer hunting. I stayed with the basics to keep it simple.

Insulated coveralls
Nice rubber boots for out in the 5" of swamp water I'll be walking through.
Orange Vest, hat and gloves
Carbon activated scent reducing spray
Tree stand and harness
Trusty 686 S&W 6" revolver
Knife
Granola bars
Flashlight
Three Zip lock bags

It sounds like alot, but it's not much compared to what some other guys have. Most of that stuff is useless unless you have more money than you know what to do with.

Cheers,
Glen
 
KJM that is about the funniest durned thing I have EVER read!!

Thanks guys for answering my question, and not getting mad at me -- I appreciate it! You confirmed my suspicions that most hunters don't really use all of that stuff... still, I wouldn't want to be bambi in these times :cool:
 
Ladybug, if anyone actually USED all that stuff, they'd miss the season by the time they got dressed, scented, covered up and drug all that equipment into the woods far enough to really SEE a deer!
Everybody I know just sits out in the woods beside the house and waits. It's real pretty in the Texas woods this time of year, and many only kill a deer if it makes them mad for interrupting their appreciation of the Piney Woods!
 
Well, I have only been hunting once or twice as a kid - never got anything but a rabbit.

I plan to go hunting - dear or boar - and when I do, I am taking a lever action rifle with iron sights (well, I may succumb and get the glowy green or orange signts)

I get SO FREAKING ANNOYED at gunshop people - I look at the 45-70 lever action guns - they ask what I want it for and I say "boar and deer - maybe bear someday"

Then they try and show me the scopes and I just look at them like they are insane - I say "this is a lever action rifle - what kind of person would put a scope on such a gun?" and then I try and seem disgusted.

I like gadgets to some degree - I work in the IT field for sakes, but I keep my computer gadget and wiget free, I like low-tech sports cars and I would rather not take an animal than do it with a bunch of gadgety crap.


Oh - and glockgirl - people that poach, especially people who poach on private, marked land are the lowest form of scum in the world. You should - I dont know - burn, overturn or submerse their truck if you find it.

I would be pretty damn tempted to cross the line with people like that.

My buddy at work just got 20 acres in the foot hills - he has a neighbor that is bow hunting tons and tons of deer of his and other people land - they find the gutpiles. He is retired military too - anyway, I hate people like that. My buddy said the warden caught some people last year taking lits of dear without tags or permission, etc - they confiscated their freaking house, land, truck, guns - the works.

grr
 
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