A new Remington 1858

C

Cactus Jake

Inactive
Hi out there. Just got a new 1858 Replica Remington New Army Police 36 cal. Revolver (Pietta) Haven't shot it yet, but have been aquiring all the goodies one needs to participate in this shooting tradition. Any advice on this particular gun or shooting it in general would be appreciated. New to shooting also. Cactus Jake
 
Congrads to you Cactus Jake. A very nice piece indeed. I have some 1858 Ren Armys .44 cal. Wanna get one a those you have 1858 Police .36 in a 5 1/2"barrel. Heard nothin but good about them, a good choice. .36 loads from a lite one @ 15gr Black Powder to 25gr is good. I load .28gr of FFFg BP in my Colt Navy .36 cal. cause that's all it holds HeHe! your cylinder may hold more. For quick easy and very effective shooting...as for seasoning the barrel and keeping fouling soft grab a tube of T/C Natural Lube Plus Bore Butter, put a ring of it around the ball after you load it sealing the ball to the cylinder. Do this before you put the caps on. You'll like it, best I've found. Later if you want use the same stuff with a mix of beeswax, parafin, and a little olive oil. Melt it in a pan sitting in another pan of boiling water, like a pancake 1/8' oor what ever you like thick. let cool make or buy a 3/8" tube for .36 cal 1/2" for .44cal. Find the next size smaller for each. With a tube cutter cut and smooth one end leave the other end as is and use asthe pill cutter make the smaller one 1/2" or so long and solder together. Use the pills as a wad and lubricating cleaner. Alot of people don't like to put these between the ball and powder, so you can put on top of ball if you like...or just make the mix soft and put it in a can and paste it on top of the balls in the cylinder...Have fun and come back and give us a report....Be safe. Just an after thought I used Crisco in my early years of BP Rev. shooting it'll work ok for youand get ya out shootin faster...the other lube is an option whan you don't like usin slippery Crisco...LoL!

SG


Hope this helps.
 
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Good Advice Thanks, Smokin

Thanks for the advise... I am really excited about shooting this "iron". Will report later. Cactus Jake
 
Excuse me for buttin' in.

Smoke, the Police model, is it a full frame 58, just .36 cal, and 5 1/2 inch barrel?

Bought one today, at a gun show, in the (ragged) box, Navy Arms, by Pietta.

Looked smaller in the showcase, brought it home, same size as the .44 Rem, except for the shorter barrel and smaller holes, barrel and chambers.

Looks unfired, but turn mark on the cylinder, and the ratchet looks like the PO had some trouble puttin' the cylinder in and out.

Cheers,

George
 
Howdy Cactus Jake and George,...congrats on your new .36 cal Remmys. I'll have to get me one of those Rem Navys sometime. Uberti makes the 7.5" one,...Pietta the 6.5" and calls it the "New Army Police". From the sounds of what George says, they're the same frame as the .44 Army. You'll no doubt have lots of fun shootin those,.....have heard a fair amount of good reports about them being good shooters. Smokin's done a good summary about gettin started,......have fun:D
 
Howdy, Oldelm,

Just measured it and it's 6 1/2 inch, the .44 is 8 inch.

Still should be fun to shoot. The chambers are as deep as the .44, just skinnier, have to see how much they will hold.

Shot 96 rounds with the Colt and the Rem, yesterday, all Goex. Pull apart and wipe like hell, and regrease to get back in operation. Shoulda took a spray bottle, or at least a bottle of water with me.

Funny, when the centerfire shooters said, Hey, Im goin' out to check my target, hold your fire. Hollered back, Sure, but I'll have these things loaded within 10 minutes.

Either gonna have to get a loading stand or a cylinder loader. Took over 3 hours to shoot. Not complaining, was a nice day, not many such in PA this time of year.

Bought all them National Bullet Co. cast balls, .451 dia. Cheap, but the balls caliper from .447 to .474, on the same ball. Roll it in the caliper, get to the parting in the mold, stepped so far it's .023 oversize, a sumbitch to ram into the chamber, thought I was gonna bend the rammer lever. Some were easier to ram than the others, must have been from other moulds, nearer mated halves.

Have to cast my own, from the stuff I already biught, to see if it is their screwup or the mould maker.

They also seem to be harder than pure lead, I can thumbnail a scratch in pure lead, in these I can't.

What do you think?

Cheers,

George
 
I think I'd tell them you're sendin them back for a refund you use them as sinkers George, seriously. Mold your own or buy factory balls. Them you are talkin about don't seem too healthy for your Guns..
Congrads on the 1858 Navy or Army Military polce .36 Rem...good job my brother...
:)
 
Smoke,

She's purty, but she goes like .372, chambers, I bought 500 .380 balls, for the 51, which needs them. Haven't calipered the .380s to see how bad they are. And this little booger has a shorter loading lever. Pushin' them balls, if they are as bad for size, might be a chore.

Still, with the long Rem chambers, I dunno know how much powder it might hold.

30 grs or more?

Saw a book at the last show, didn't want to pay the price. 30 bucks. At the show today, finally found the same book, asked if they would come down. Nope, it was already marked down to 28. Stopped at Borders, used their looker upper, same book, new, is 25 bucks.

Fantastic!!!!

We're warning people to be careful with brassers, and the guy who was in charge of developing the brass framed Confederate revolvers loaded them to within an inch of the muzzle with powder and fired them.

They held, sometimes.

They couldn't make enough resistance, they put a 2 pound weight on the muzzle, fired them.

They held.

Gone from here to find the book.

Cheers,

George
 
George, The last people to make the original size reprduction Remington .36 was Lyman and that quit making them years a go. Saw one once at a gun show but the guy wanted $500.00 and it was not in good shape so I passed.I looked for years for them and Old Dragoon found one on an auction sight for me. I sent several emails but could get very little info from the sellers so I passed. I really don't like the idea of buying anything without haveing it in my hand. Anyway, they are hard to find but they are smaller than the .44 and really feel good in the hand.
 
unfortunately, you may never run across a .36 remington on the smaller frame. It's more economical for the companies who make these guns to use the same frame for the all their different caliber offerings and just have the different barrels and cylinders to fit the frame...fewer machines to buy or build. If there was a big market for the smaller frame .36, enough that the manufacturer would make profit even after buying or building the machines to make the smaller frame, then you could bet that they would be back in circulation. If I ever happen to run across a small frame .36 Remington in good shape and resonable price, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.
 
This is my personal opinion, but I believe that Euroarms built their '58 Remmingtons on the 36 Navy Frame. they are lighter and smaller somewhat, than either the Pietta or the Uberti. The one Smoking_Gun has feels like an old Lyman 36 Navy. I was suprized that it was that much smaller, in heft and feel, than the pietta's. SG also related to me that his Uberti cylinder fit into the Armi San Paolo(Euroarms) '58 Remmie. So maybe the frame isn't that much smaller but it sure feels more like an original Remington. I can't prove my theory, but there sure is a difference at least in heft and feel. It felt almost as good to me as a "51 Colt Navy.
 
Your theory is correct in comparing the ASP/Euroarms to the original Remington frame size Old Dragoon ..all the cylinders in .44 or .36 have to be close in length and size for bullet size and powder capacity. So the dim. in the frame would be pretty close on all 1858's. But the actual grip/frame size would equate to the originals...with Eurarms(ASP). And yup the Ubertis fit just fine(ie Kirst):)
 
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George them .380" balls will work well inthat Rem Navy I'm sure...I normally use 25gr of BP in my Uberti Navy with a lube pill on top or under your choice. If it holds 28-30gr w/o a pill jus lube top of ball it'd probly handle it but that's alot a powder for a .36 cal steady diet...
 
This is my personal opinion, but I believe that Euroarms built their '58 Remmingtons on the 36 Navy Frame. they are lighter and smaller somewhat, than either the Pietta or the Uberti.
Click to expand...

Old Dragoon,.....I thought my Uberti '58 Rem felt good in my hand until I held my brother's new Armi San Paolo engraved, stainless '58 Rem. Boy, does it ever feel great!!:D Now I know how you musta felt when you held Smokin's ASP. I have small hands, so it feels just right. The ASP frame is smaller at least in the gripframe area,..... here are some comparison pics.....

grips superimposed ,....ASP on top

mcd63m.jpg


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side by side comparisons......(ASP has engraving)

mcd6km.jpg


mcd6r9.jpg


mcdq28.jpg
 
WOW! I can see just where they are different now. So the ASP must be an Army Frame but different in the grip area. I can see it in the pictures , especially the side views. the distance grom grip frame(end of grip to Hammer Screw) and the depth in that area. . Great Photo's
BTW Don't that ASP feel great? And if it'll take an Uberti Cylinder and work, like SG says I would expect the Kirst Uberti Cylinder would work too. Fantastic! Also one other thing I noticed is the ASP has less threads showing on the breech end of the bbl. than does the Uberti and Pietta. I think that may be the difference in the '58 and the '61 Rem. One had less threads exposed than the other, could be they were differnt models that the moulds and machines were made from......????
I just might have to trade my pietta's in for ASP's....maybe.
 
Old Dragoon? Let me know when yur gittin rid a the Gunslinin Angel or the 8" then...dibbs!:)

Great shots Oldelm, have you asked your Brother yet about wantin ta trade fur a 2004 Uberti?
 
Old Dragoon,......yep,...this ASP feels real good!:D

You're right about the breech end showing less threads,.....here's my brother's ..
mcu813.jpg

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and here it is with my Uberti R&D.......drops in & cycles just fine.....don't ya just love it!!...lol !! :D
mcub75.jpg

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Smokin,......my brother loves stainless guns and, no doubt, wouldn't want to part with it,...I don't blame him,..hehe
 
Hey did the long one go in? (R&D)

Oldelm, I don't blame him either:D The bbl length on my is exactly 7.950". Do you remember when Rimfires a hardcore Colt Collector of 1st Gens. looked up the numbers on mine and came up with Dec 17 1861. Wellthese models are the exact confiruation of the last 1861 Old Army before they were redesignated the 1858 New Army...I should say the ASP I have is with all authentic U.S. markings. Wonder if that's what mine was a copy of...Until I found the DGG inside the grip, no one knew, thought I might have had an original. Turned out just as well though I probly would a sold it and not found all this out about the ASP"s/Euroarms...now I can have more for less...LoL!
 
I suspect that is the case then. The ASP's are models of the 1861 "Old" Army. The so called '58 Rem. NMA is actually the model of 1863. The "Old" Army became the "Old" Army with the introduction of the 1863 NMA. There were several changes to both the "Old Army a and the NMA and not all the changes were made to the New Model Army until after it's introduction. there were several changes to the "Old" Army before the NMA was introduced.

Read about the changes here: http://www.scorrs.org/
The Evolution of Remington's Cap & Ball Revolvers
by Tom Ball (Sesech)


Pretty cool to have both the "old" army and the NMA both available for us to spend more money on. It looks as if the R & D Uberti fits and indexes then the Uberti Kirst should work also....I think I see a ASP "Old Army in my future.......
 
Smokin,...yep,...the long one went in, and I can fold a piece of paper over on itself & stick it between the cyl. face and breech,...so that's about a .006 or so gap.:)
 
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