A little vent
- Thread starter CMichael
- Start date
Who cares if he can shoot them, as long as he has fun! That's why I shoot. Not to win awards, or anyones admiration. I could care less as long as I have fun and do the best I can. And, I enjoy shooting enough that I want a fine machine to do it with.
I waited a long time to afford a decent gun. And I've shot every cheap piece of junk out there. I shot some pretty good. But when I got the money to do some serious buying with, you can bet your wallet I didn't buy any wal-mart specials.
Those junk guns will never be heirlooms. All they'll be is cheap antiques. Now, get a gun that has fine engraving, are solid as a rock, and has beautifully sculpted wood, and it'll be an heirloom. But it will cost ya too.
It's not how much you spend that makes you who you are. And, you have to admit, we'd all love to have a finely made Italian shotgun.
I waited a long time to afford a decent gun. And I've shot every cheap piece of junk out there. I shot some pretty good. But when I got the money to do some serious buying with, you can bet your wallet I didn't buy any wal-mart specials.
Those junk guns will never be heirlooms. All they'll be is cheap antiques. Now, get a gun that has fine engraving, are solid as a rock, and has beautifully sculpted wood, and it'll be an heirloom. But it will cost ya too.
It's not how much you spend that makes you who you are. And, you have to admit, we'd all love to have a finely made Italian shotgun.
Dave...IIRC not very well. Last time I saw him he had a very nicely engraved Beretta 390.
Then there is the shooter who is wealthy, but insists on shooting a basic Browning Citori. He made Master Class with it. I found out he owns three identical guns and had them all fitted with the same stocks. He can afford better but sticks with the plain jane citoris. He always chides me because I shoot my K80, told me to get a citori and shoot more. He holds the course record of 99 (out of 100). Maybe I should listen to him
It takes all kinds. You get a real education hanging around SportingClays shooters.
Like the manhattan foot doctor who likes Remington 32's, must have a dozen of them, all restored and reworked.
Or the other doctor who shoots Italian guns with barely pronouncable names who spent the better part of a 100 bird clays course educating me about the beauty of fine gold swiss watches that he collects.
Or the laborer with 6 kids and three jobs who shoots an old 1100 with fixed full choke and beats all of us.
Then there is the shooter who is wealthy, but insists on shooting a basic Browning Citori. He made Master Class with it. I found out he owns three identical guns and had them all fitted with the same stocks. He can afford better but sticks with the plain jane citoris. He always chides me because I shoot my K80, told me to get a citori and shoot more. He holds the course record of 99 (out of 100). Maybe I should listen to him
It takes all kinds. You get a real education hanging around SportingClays shooters.
Like the manhattan foot doctor who likes Remington 32's, must have a dozen of them, all restored and reworked.
Or the other doctor who shoots Italian guns with barely pronouncable names who spent the better part of a 100 bird clays course educating me about the beauty of fine gold swiss watches that he collects.
Or the laborer with 6 kids and three jobs who shoots an old 1100 with fixed full choke and beats all of us.
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Or one of my friends who does not have much money - but scrimps and saves for his small collection of top of the line firearms.
All a matter of taste.
Giz
All a matter of taste.
Giz
Random Thoughts...
1. The fit of the shotgun to YOU is more important than the action, price, fanciness, etc. You need to be able to shoulder it and have the sighting plane lined up naturally.
2. A guy once told me (I was in sales) "Never write with a cheap pen. It's the closest communication you ever get a direct link between your mind and your hand. A cheap pen will make you feel cheap psychologically." I bought a good pen and I believe he was right. Remember the old saying "clothes make the man."
3. There are snobs and reverse snobs as others have mentioned.
4. Based on my own experiences, I think there may be something to having a good quality shotgun. That said, I shoot with an nondescript ancient SXS by Springfield (one of the myriad companies that were absorbed by Savage Arms during the depression, I think).
1. The fit of the shotgun to YOU is more important than the action, price, fanciness, etc. You need to be able to shoulder it and have the sighting plane lined up naturally.
2. A guy once told me (I was in sales) "Never write with a cheap pen. It's the closest communication you ever get a direct link between your mind and your hand. A cheap pen will make you feel cheap psychologically." I bought a good pen and I believe he was right. Remember the old saying "clothes make the man."
3. There are snobs and reverse snobs as others have mentioned.
4. Based on my own experiences, I think there may be something to having a good quality shotgun. That said, I shoot with an nondescript ancient SXS by Springfield (one of the myriad companies that were absorbed by Savage Arms during the depression, I think).
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Michael, taking your question at face value, the only way a cheaper SG would have the same specs as a more expensive one is if one was over (or under) priced.
Forgive me for attempting to interprete your question, but it appears that what your asking is - "can I get better results with a more expensive gun?".
The answer is yes - but there is a bell curve in shooting results. The person who is breaking high 90's in trap has the basics down - but something is holding them back. It may be the equipment or a couple of training tips/suggestions. Frankly, us Americans tend to address training problems by buying equipment, about 90% of the time.
I learned skeet basics from a guy named Fred Misseldine at Sea Island Georgia. The first time I met him, he smoked 24 clays and apologized for the 25th - it broke, but was not smoked. He was shooting a .410 pump (Win 42?). Lil Stephenson is a friend who also habitually cleans house - her favorite SG is a 20 Ga. SxS - AyA I think. Lil is over 70 years young and takes no prisoners.
One of the IPSC champs compared a non-tricked out 1911 with a fully tricked out 1911. It saved him some small number of seconds on a given course of fire - enough to matter to him, but way beyond what us mortals can expect. (Rob Latham)
On one hand, it ain't the arrow, it's the indian - but once a certain level is reached, you need better equipment. I will never have the desire nor the genes to match these folks (or money) but until I start outshooting my hardware, I'll stick with what I have.
HTH!
Giz
Forgive me for attempting to interprete your question, but it appears that what your asking is - "can I get better results with a more expensive gun?".
The answer is yes - but there is a bell curve in shooting results. The person who is breaking high 90's in trap has the basics down - but something is holding them back. It may be the equipment or a couple of training tips/suggestions. Frankly, us Americans tend to address training problems by buying equipment, about 90% of the time.
I learned skeet basics from a guy named Fred Misseldine at Sea Island Georgia. The first time I met him, he smoked 24 clays and apologized for the 25th - it broke, but was not smoked. He was shooting a .410 pump (Win 42?). Lil Stephenson is a friend who also habitually cleans house - her favorite SG is a 20 Ga. SxS - AyA I think. Lil is over 70 years young and takes no prisoners.
One of the IPSC champs compared a non-tricked out 1911 with a fully tricked out 1911. It saved him some small number of seconds on a given course of fire - enough to matter to him, but way beyond what us mortals can expect. (Rob Latham)
On one hand, it ain't the arrow, it's the indian - but once a certain level is reached, you need better equipment. I will never have the desire nor the genes to match these folks (or money) but until I start outshooting my hardware, I'll stick with what I have.
HTH!
Giz
Michael:
The answer to your question is it depends on which specs you are talking about. A Remington Wingmaster is more expensive than the Express because it is better finished and has nicer wood. It's the same basic gun and won't shoot any better than the Express with similar specs.
But if you take a Ruger Red Label over/under with 30" barrels and match it against a similarly equipped Krieghoff at 5 times the price, the more expensive gun will break more targets.
What you are paying for in this instance are better barrels that are properly regulated and will throw more consistent patterns, possibly an adjustable or custom stock to make the gun fit better, much better triggers and more dynamic balance. All of these qualities improve scores.
What really improves scores though is practice. There's no free lunch.
The answer to your question is it depends on which specs you are talking about. A Remington Wingmaster is more expensive than the Express because it is better finished and has nicer wood. It's the same basic gun and won't shoot any better than the Express with similar specs.
But if you take a Ruger Red Label over/under with 30" barrels and match it against a similarly equipped Krieghoff at 5 times the price, the more expensive gun will break more targets.
What you are paying for in this instance are better barrels that are properly regulated and will throw more consistent patterns, possibly an adjustable or custom stock to make the gun fit better, much better triggers and more dynamic balance. All of these qualities improve scores.
What really improves scores though is practice. There's no free lunch.
Thank you for responding to my question.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant would a 12 gauge 28" barrell with a modified choke fire the same way as another 12 gauge 28" barrell with a modified chock that is more expensive.
As I understand it the anwer is no.
How big of a difference does it make?
Michael
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I meant would a 12 gauge 28" barrell with a modified choke fire the same way as another 12 gauge 28" barrell with a modified chock that is more expensive.
As I understand it the anwer is no.
How big of a difference does it make?
Michael
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
The strict answer is "Maybe". I saved the money for a nice over and under when I was in Europe. Having most Saturdays off, I shot a lot of skeet and tried a lot of guns. I decided on an SKB - I simply shot it better than anything else regardless of price. Forget the list of guns I tried, but Merkels, Winchesters, Kreighoffs, Brownings - the SKB fit better.
Could I have equaled that with my 1100? Maybe..... Does my bro-in-law shoot better than I with his 870? Yep!
Does a more expensive gun automaticly give better results? No.
Too many variables in individuals and guns for any exact answers. But having a gun that gives good results is the name of the game regardless of the cost.
Giz
Could I have equaled that with my 1100? Maybe..... Does my bro-in-law shoot better than I with his 870? Yep!
Does a more expensive gun automaticly give better results? No.
Too many variables in individuals and guns for any exact answers. But having a gun that gives good results is the name of the game regardless of the cost.
Giz
Another plus of the higher end guns is reliability. Nothing is more frustrating than having an expensive O/U malfunction or break a part during a shoot.
Cheaper O/U's breaking parts means a trip to the factory. Or to a competent gunsmith, and possibly a long wait for parts.
The more expensive guns are built with the ability to easily replace parts that could break or wear out. Many have replaceable trigger groups that can be changed out in seconds. Springs are more durable and triggers are better designed.
Try getting a second set of barrels made for a Ruger or Remington, or any other cheap import double.
Extra barrel sets for K and P guns are easily obtained and usually fit without problems.
The high end guns have a variety of different stock configurations available and stocks can be changed out quickly.
The K and P guns are designed to shoot many thousands of rounds under heavy use and keep functioning with minimal maintenance.
Check the types of guns used at the Grand American or the National Skeet Champions. They use certain guns for a reason!
Did my K80 give me more birds or make me a better shooter. NO! But I have more confidence in it and it has never let me down.
Cheaper O/U's breaking parts means a trip to the factory. Or to a competent gunsmith, and possibly a long wait for parts.
The more expensive guns are built with the ability to easily replace parts that could break or wear out. Many have replaceable trigger groups that can be changed out in seconds. Springs are more durable and triggers are better designed.
Try getting a second set of barrels made for a Ruger or Remington, or any other cheap import double.
Extra barrel sets for K and P guns are easily obtained and usually fit without problems.
The high end guns have a variety of different stock configurations available and stocks can be changed out quickly.
The K and P guns are designed to shoot many thousands of rounds under heavy use and keep functioning with minimal maintenance.
Check the types of guns used at the Grand American or the National Skeet Champions. They use certain guns for a reason!
Did my K80 give me more birds or make me a better shooter. NO! But I have more confidence in it and it has never let me down.