You are joking, right? AK = Bad guy??? I may have opinions on the AK/AR, but that is the most idiotic statement I have heard for awhile. You are esentialy saying that you are too stupid to determine if someone is a friend or foe and just to look at the weapon they are carrying to determine if you should blow them away.:barf: So if you saw some Al Qaeda carrying M-16s you would be OK and not ask any questions? That must have been some training you got if that is what they taught you.
a little experience with the m16
- Thread starter pvtmcd
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You are joking, right? AK = Bad guy??? I may have opinions on the AK/AR, but that is the most idiotic statement I have heard for awhile. You are esentialy saying that you are too stupid to determine if someone is a friend or foe and just to look at the weapon they are carrying to determine if you should blow them away.:barf: So if you saw some Al Qaeda carrying M-16s you would be OK and not ask any questions? That must have been some training you got if that is what they taught you.
My only experience with the AR15 is with law enforcement. I've put thousands of rounds down range and have instructed officers putting tens of thousands of rounds down range. I can count on one hand the amount of jams that I have seen.
Out of that hand full of jams, one third were caused by riding the charging handle, one third were caused by being very dirty, and a third were caused by junk magazines. You can take care of 2 out of the 3 by training and discipline. The last I took care of by purchasing better magazines.
As for "knock down power" or the lack of it -
I would never want to be hit by one of these things. We have to be honest with ourselves and remember that there is no "magic bullet" out there. You must rely on sound tactics and repeated accurate hits.
From a LE perspective, the AR platform is still the best thing out there in my opinion.
Out of that hand full of jams, one third were caused by riding the charging handle, one third were caused by being very dirty, and a third were caused by junk magazines. You can take care of 2 out of the 3 by training and discipline. The last I took care of by purchasing better magazines.
As for "knock down power" or the lack of it -
I would never want to be hit by one of these things. We have to be honest with ourselves and remember that there is no "magic bullet" out there. You must rely on sound tactics and repeated accurate hits.
From a LE perspective, the AR platform is still the best thing out there in my opinion.
The person stating that they were taught to open fire on AK toting peeps was probably a Vietnam vet. The mentality and training of our military now have drastically improved. Vietnam was an era were the enemy knew when our fighter bombers/bombers were coming because of our lack of OPSEC and we kept happy hour as scheduled. Even though you highly disagree with what they were taught they still deserve the utmost respect because they fought for your rights to call them stupid over the internet. josh
AK is the "enemy's gun"
Lots of us were taught that during the 60's and 70's. The only people in the world who had AKs were communist troops, or communist supplied. To us, that meant ENEMY! And it is encouraged to shoot them.
One of the most common mistakes made is to apply today's standards to yesterday.
Implying someone is an idiot for telling you how things were when they were there does not reflect well on your creditability.
grow up
Lots of us were taught that during the 60's and 70's. The only people in the world who had AKs were communist troops, or communist supplied. To us, that meant ENEMY! And it is encouraged to shoot them.
One of the most common mistakes made is to apply today's standards to yesterday.
Implying someone is an idiot for telling you how things were when they were there does not reflect well on your creditability.
grow up
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
Reminds me of 'Gunny' on Mail Call.
"This is the preferred weapon of our enemy, the AK-47...Now lets see how well it works on these unsuspecting watermelons."
"This is the preferred weapon of our enemy, the AK-47...Now lets see how well it works on these unsuspecting watermelons."
Seems like I am catching alot of flack for that post of mine.
It is one thing to be taught it in the military in the 1960-70's.(Shouldn't have been taught then either, but you can't change that.) It is another thing to use it as a reason against the AK in todays world. I probably should have worded it better to reflect upon the person training those soldier rather than make it seem like the soldier was the dumb one. OK, my bad. I'll admit when I screwed up and should have worded my post a little better. Sometimes I make myself look like an idiot, that post was one of those times.
Veterans are people, yes they put their butts on the line. I even tried to join the military. (Won't take me because of uncorrectable eyesight problems.) Most are good people, some are real jerks and use the word "veteran" as a get out of jail free card. I have even pissed a few off when I called them on stuff that was blatently wrong. "The Geneva Convention doesn't let us use hollowpoints" is one that I correct quite often. I have politely corrected several veterans about that legality. Most listen intently, eager to learn something new. It then usualy goes into a polite debate about different policies, weapons, and tactics used in the past and present. I get to hear good stories and life experiences from them. Some, on the other hand, act as if I just punched their mother. How DARE I try and correct them. They're a VETERAN and apparently that means they can't be wrong. Fortunately they are few and far between.
It is one thing to be taught it in the military in the 1960-70's.(Shouldn't have been taught then either, but you can't change that.) It is another thing to use it as a reason against the AK in todays world. I probably should have worded it better to reflect upon the person training those soldier rather than make it seem like the soldier was the dumb one. OK, my bad. I'll admit when I screwed up and should have worded my post a little better. Sometimes I make myself look like an idiot, that post was one of those times.
Veterans are people, yes they put their butts on the line. I even tried to join the military. (Won't take me because of uncorrectable eyesight problems.) Most are good people, some are real jerks and use the word "veteran" as a get out of jail free card. I have even pissed a few off when I called them on stuff that was blatently wrong. "The Geneva Convention doesn't let us use hollowpoints" is one that I correct quite often. I have politely corrected several veterans about that legality. Most listen intently, eager to learn something new. It then usualy goes into a polite debate about different policies, weapons, and tactics used in the past and present. I get to hear good stories and life experiences from them. Some, on the other hand, act as if I just punched their mother. How DARE I try and correct them. They're a VETERAN and apparently that means they can't be wrong. Fortunately they are few and far between.
I had much the same negative experiences with my M16A2/M203's in the infantry a few years back. At the time, other than military experience/training, I didn't know enough about guns to know as to why some worked and some didn't. I kept my rifle Q-tip clean yet at times it woundn't make it through a 40 round weapons qualification with out jamming. Now that I'm more experienced with the in's and out's of what makes weapons tick, I realized that most of the problems with those guns were most likely magazine related. I hated M-16's at the time and carried an M249 SAW by choice in Korea while running counter infiltration patrols in the DMZ while attached to UNCSB-JSA. Now that I know what AR's like and don't like, I want to get an AR and will probably build one in the next year or so. Will I trust it like my recently sold SAR-1? I feel that time will tell on that one. I bet it will be a good companion to my M1A black synthetic Scout.
Flip.
Flip.
Crosshair, in the 1960's and 1970's, there were no other soldiers running around with an AK47. Civilians didn't own them. Night-vision wasn't available to the individual on the line, either. The idea of a flash picture was all that many of the older, and still alive, non-coms could give the prospective combat vet. It may not have been politically correct to those who have never fought in those conditions, but it worked. Who are you to decide what should and shouldn't have been taught under those conditions? We also shot at anyone with a bolt-action rifle. Many VC used the Model 53 or 1944 Mosin-Nagant, as well as the SKS, Mat49, and so on. In CQB, the person attacking you was safely considered the enemy. 
As for the Geneva Convention, it wasn't taught in any training, except maybe to JAG. Nor were the Hague Accords. Common useage by the MSM, and many other uninformed sources, led the average person, and does so even today, to the idea that the rules of warfare are regulated by the Geneva Convention. As you said, Vets are people, and many people don't react well to a stranger correcting them. It has nothing to do with their status as veterans. They may also be teachers, or reps of the MSM.
As for the Geneva Convention, it wasn't taught in any training, except maybe to JAG. Nor were the Hague Accords. Common useage by the MSM, and many other uninformed sources, led the average person, and does so even today, to the idea that the rules of warfare are regulated by the Geneva Convention. As you said, Vets are people, and many people don't react well to a stranger correcting them. It has nothing to do with their status as veterans. They may also be teachers, or reps of the MSM.