A little .45-70 info please.......

S

Sarge43

New member
I have been lusting after a gorgeous Pedersoli Sharps in .45-70 for about a month now and am about at the end of my resistance to bringing it home.

While I have dumped a lot of .45-70 through the Gatling gun pictured, I have yet to launch it from a 30" barrel attached to the rolling block action of a Sharps.

I'm not recoil sensitive, in fact I like big weapons that push me backwards. Anyone here have experience with the round in a 30" barrel length? How accurate can it be, assuming I do my part? Anyone have group sizes out past 4-500 yards? I want to use it for elk eventually. I hear of shots at out to 1000 yards, but the trajectory is like " shooting a free throw" with drops of 300+ inches when zeroed at 300 even with the lighter bullets loaded.
Any info would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Sarge
 
I am sure you will get some good answers. I want to give one recommendation.

You want a nice shotgun (as in flat) butt plate and pistol grip. The crescent steel will hurt. I shoot 458 lott and 505 gibbs, but; I wont suffer the crescent butt plate for no good reason. It is pointless that a mild manner round like 45/70 or 45 2 7/8 for that matter should hurt.

I may post again. But think about my suggestion. I did not follow your links. I dont know what the pedersoli looks like. I am guessing. I cannot follow links for security reasons, nothing personal.

One more. The shiloh sharps is more money for 300% more quality.
 
Thanks for your input fourbore, I appreciate it. I will look into the Sharps line. The one I have been looking at is $1,999 and really caught my eye. I was wondering about the crescent buttplate. The other models I've seen with the flat plate are nowhere near as good looking as I can't find one with all the other accoutrements on it. Thanks for your suggestions!
Sarge
 
I can't speak for the 30" barrel but having put a lot of hot rounds down range with a Marlin 1895SS...forget looks and DITCH that crescent steel butt plate.

Accuracy? 45-70 can be plenty accurate.. can you accurately estimate range at 4-500 yards in 25 yard increments? The best B.C. cast bullet listed in Lymans has a BC of .477 and if leaving the barrel @ 1750 fps would drop 86" @ 400 yards and 156" @ 500. This BTW is a HOT load as the bullet is also 475 gr.
 
check out the black powder cartridge forums for load help in a 45 70. high velocity (relative to this cartridge) is not necessary for accurate loads. some where around 500 grain cast lead with proper black powder technique is more important. loads around 1250 fps is where it is at. I shoot a pedersoli sharps replica and it is near the top of the rifles I shoot at 500 yards plus. bob
 
Not trying to hijack the thread but is that your Gatling gun Sarge? And yes that Sharps is absolutely gorgeous.
 
I've owned three Pedersoli Sharps in 45-70 and two Pedersoli High Walls in 45-70. I also own/owned a Winchester 1885 and an 1886 in 45-70. You definitely want a shotgun style butt plate. Trust me on that one. You pic looks like a Sharps to my eyes, not a rolling block. Anyway, go to the Pedersoli web site and look at all the rifles offered. They make a LOT of different models and at different price breaks. I can assure you that you can get one with whatever your heart desires. I had one that was very, very nice with all the bells and whistles. It was reflected in the cost. As for quality? Even the fantastic American made guns don't really out shoot the Pedersoli rifles. Most of the ones I owned would shoot 1moa with the right loads and a good set of sights. Pedersoli doesn't make high quality sights and you won't get the accuracy you're looking for using them. Either go to MVA or Shaver's for a good set. Shaver's has the best value for the money spent and he's a great guy to deal with. Check out his web site. He is, or was, the American warranty rep for Pedersoli for years and can answer a lot of questions about their guns and shooting them. He himself has held many world titles shooting these types of guns. He's a fantastic gunsmith. Good luck with your selection. Oh yeah, visit Cherry's website for Pedersoli. They sell a lot of them in this country.
 
Nossecondbest - WOW, thanks for that info! Great stuff there! I will check it out.

Targa - No, it's not mine, but it belongs to a good friend of a good friend and he let's me borrow it from time to time. I'm a lucky guy! You oughta see the crowd gather around when you pull up to the range and unload that thing. When you crank it and they hear the "cow-cow-cow-cow" people literally come running. It's something that not many have the privilege of shooting. Like I said, I'm very lucky.
Sarge
 
Some thoughts:

You never will shoot a 30-inch barrel attached to the rolling block action of a Sharps.
The Sharps 1874s use a falling block action. :)

Realistically, forget about hunting out to 400 or more yards with it.
The rifle can easily reach out to 1000 yards, but the farther you zero it for, the higher you'll be shooting over your elks' heads inside that distance.
And that'll be a matter of feet, not inches.
If you want to hunt, consider it largely a 150-yard proposition, and learn the trajectory inside that distance.

LISTEN to the Flattbutters!!!!!!!
The crescent looks great, but your shoulder will not like it over the long run.
Both of my Shilohs have been flat, I've owned & worked with crescents, and I will never own one again.

I've worked with a handful of Pedersolis.
The barrels are typically good, they shoot well with good loads, but the fit & finish is usually not quite up to the level of a Shiloh.
Neither are the prices.

If you intend to shoot way out there, plan on anywhere from $600-$800 on upgrading the factory sights. And that'll just get you started.

Re the BP vs smokeless, be aware up front if you intend to try BP that it may take a relatively extensive development period to create a good long-distance load.
Even small changes in powder, primers, wads, paper patching, and bullets can make a substantial difference.
One buddy took over a year in studying his rifle & experimenting with different BP components. He was building a load for long-range competition, so it had to be accurate.

Building an accurate smokeless load can be much easier.
Denis
 
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Heck, I took the crescent butt stock off my little .38-55 for BPCR MS.
Those things are meant for offhand shooting with the crescent more on the arm than the shoulder.

Plain grade American made Shiloh Sharps and C. Sharps start around $2000. I do not know what their present turnaround time is, though. C. Sharps usually has faster delivery than Shiloh. It is also very easy to get on the option chart and double the price.

Good tang and globe sights for target shooting are rather expensive. The Lawrence pattern open sights are adequate for hunting within the .45-70's trajectory limits.
 
If you make a special order, in my opinion, the 45/90 is the best balanced option in the old time 45's.

I have shot the 45/70, 45/90 and 45 2 2/78 and the 45 /90 seems like about optimal capacity. The 45/70 with modern brass is really a 45/60 in capacity due to the solid head brass. You can also use a lubricated felt wad between bullet and powder and easily get a good 70gr 500 bullet load in a 45/90 case.

I like the gatling gun. Nice!
 
45 90 is a good cartridge, I had one in a c sharps. however due keep in mind that reduced loads in a black powder cartridge isn't easy.
....62grains of 2ff or cartridge black powder dropped from a long tube will go in a 45 70 case. a card wad cut from a orange juice container seated with a little crush. then the 500 grain bullet finger seated. only enough crimp to fit the chamber.
....standard load for 45 70, easy peasy and at six hundred yards the gong at any buffalo shoot is yours. bobn
 
Best value is subjective. Remember the sights. Those tang sights shown on the pedersoli post #1 are an abomination to look at and crude in function. All these years and no change. That makes me suspicions of the whole peder mindset. Style over function- take a nice photo. Now, granted a top dollar American made gun will need sights too. The final cost, in gun, accessories, and all the loading paraphernalia will be significant. You might also say buying a medium grade gun is penny wise and dollar foolish. Or is that backwards?

I looked at other peder guns that dont have the look in person as the catalog photos suggest. They maybe unique, yet when you dig into reviews there are flaws. Not sharps, other models. I am more impressed with Uberti as a company, while not relevant here. Uberti did a high wall or was that a low wall?

If you buy a low end product and keep it simple, that is one scenario. if you get serious and buy into the sport then you dont want to be putting lipstick on a pig. Get a 2nd gun.

If you look at value without going wild on the accessories side, H&R made a buffalo 45/70 that I am sure was a value product too. Not meant as a insult to Pedersoli. That is another way to start simple. I see them used.
 
Pedersoli makes some very nicely finished guns. You pay for them. The ones you buy for a grand aren't the nicely finished ones....but they shoot just as well. I like fine guns and own several. However, I don't bite off my nose to spite my face. A higher end Pedersoli is a very, very nicely finished gun. You'll also pay around two grand for a really nice one. They also shoot as well as the American made Sharps regardless of what one person may tell you. They're the snob. It really does come down to the sights. Even the American made Sharps won't shoot well with cheap sights. The problem with cheap sights is that they have too much back lash in the adjustments, don't stand up straight (they all need to be adjusted straight, even the good ones), and they don't have accurate adjustments. Get what ever gun you want, just make sure you get good sights for it. I owned one Pedersoli Sharps that had AAA fancy wood on it, was hand checkered 32lpi, and the nickel finished receiver was a thing of beauty. It also shot much better than I could....and I'm a good shot. Nothing wrong with the American ones either. They'll hold their value very well. Actually, the Sharps I've sold returned almost as much as I paid for them and in one case appreciated in value. Don't listen to the nay sayers about Pedersoli. However, just remember the intro models sold by Cabela's, etc are a bit less refined in finish. Again, they still shoot very well. Pedersoli makes outstanding barrels on state of the art equipment. Again, visit their web site or talk to Lee Shaver who is an expert on all single shot guns. He'll give you the straight scoop on these types of guns.
 
for what is worth I have shot one pedersoli, one ballard, two browning brown black powders, two c sharps arms rifles. three h and r buffs.
....all of them were unique, some had loose chambers and fouled easy. the h and r's are to light for 50 rounds of ammo usually fired at a gong shoot. the brownings were not as accurate as they should have been. the c sharp in 45 90 was too temperamental. the ballard was to weird to get brass for. the pedersoli will get it done with out a lot of drama. bob
 
Best value is subjective. Remember the sights....
Click to expand...
No, best value is OBJjective... fit, finish, and accuracy. Perdersoli gives to the most important -- accuracy -- right out of the box. Their barrels are superb. Everything else after that is choose-your-news icing after the fact.

postscript: multi-grand C.Sharps or Shilo, you still pay extra for the sights you want.
Mine have invariably been MVA... which are outstanding.
 
Never look back...

Start here, find the rifle models offered, pick out and customize your dream gun, do the wait (part of the experience), and never, ever, look back.

www.shilohrifle.com

I have two, and wouldn't trade them for a pile of Peds... and that's just my humble one.

Someone made a comment; "They're snobs," and I'm guessing it was meant for the Shiloh folks (? hope not). Call them what you will (whoever was meant for that comment), but the Shiloh Rifle Manufactory customer service is absolutely first rate, and unmatched on their product (that's if the gun is registered in your name). And, EVEYTHING on a Shiloh gun is made in America. If you're starting out on your Sharps experience, the 45/70 is the route to follow, and a Shiloh Sharps is the rifle to own, and again, IMHO.
 
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