A lesson learned!

B

Big Tom

New member
So not so long ago I was looking for a ccw gun in .22. Well I am certainly glad some of you talked me out of it! I read comments saying that .22 would bounce off you. I laughed at that thinking they were just stupid comments! I was looking around and saw the Taurus PT-22 on youtube! Now even if I was going to get this gun I would still get it in .25 ACP for less chances of misfires. But anyways. I watched this youtube video when this guy is shooting his gun and the .22 bullets are bouncing of his wood targets!! I couldnt believe what I was seeing. I am so glad I reconsidered getting a .380 or 9mm, because had I actually gone with a .22 for SD I may of been a dead man in the future!

If you wanna see the vid its right here, but note I doubt these guys are good shot anyways...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liGeq0JQ-Tg
 
But anyways. I watched this youtube video when this guy is shooting his gun and the .22 bullets are bouncing of his wood targets!! I couldnt believe what I was seeing. I am so glad I reconsidered getting a .380 or 9mm, because had I actually gone with a .22 for SD I may of been a dead man in the future!
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He wasn't shooting at wood targets.

They're steel

Bullets didn't bounce off. They fragmented or disintegrated. Same as the bullets do on any steel target---with all pistol calibers.

The video was made by a couple of untrained and unsafe amateurs (finger constantly on trigger) and doesn't indicate one way or the other the wisdom in choosing the .22 as a primary defense gun.

While the round is potentially very deadly on human adversaries, since it penetrates and does lots of internal damage, it isn't known for ending fights in a quick manner. Poor choice for Self Defense, so you got that part right.:cool:
 
The most Bluntly put........well I can't think of anything LOL.

My friend had a negligent discharge a few months ago out of his Beretta jetfire. It went through his hand like a hot knife through butter.

My little Beretta jetfire in 22 short penetrated 22 sheets of cardboard.

Still puny but not that puny.
 
No handgun caliber gives you invincibility.
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Well said.

AND

No handgun caliber is a good SD round unless you can hit vitals - every time. I'd rather put a .22LR in the BG's eye than a .45ACP in his arm. I believe that Taurus PT holds 6 or 7+1. You put all 7 rounds in his chest and very few people are gonna be able to ignore that.
 
I still remember a friend (CCW instructor) shooting at a 55 gallon drum with a .380 ACP. The bullets were hitting the drum, and falling in the dirt.

My brother's 9mm was shooting into the drum, and the bullets mostly stayed inside. He was using FMJ target ammo.

My .40 S&W would shoot through both sides of the drum.

But don't place too much credibility in someone who says a .22 LR will bounce off of you. I've shot more than a few coyotes through the chest with an old Colt Woodsman, and those bullets only bounced off the ground after passing through the coyote(s). It's my kill gun when predator calling (used to finish off cripples without ruining the hide), and it's quite lethal. A coyote shot through the chest will die within a few seconds.

There are much better options for self-defense, but a .22 LR won't bounce off of anyone at defensive distances.

Daryl
 
Nnobby45,

He said that the first target (the one that looks like a native) was wood.

To the rest of you, I know a .22 is deadly, no doubt. But in a mouse gun unless you are within 10 feet maybe 15 I dont see it happening. Granted mouse guns are for closer distances. I would prefer a gun that I can rely on for upwards of about 30 feet or so. This is not the gun for that unfortunately. I would much rather have a .380 mouse gun for SD.
 
I would much rather have a .380 mouse gun for SD.
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Considering that the 9mm is made in a variety of small packages and is considerably more potent than the .380, and that wide varieties of ammo are readily available, I'd recommend that as my choice over the latter.
 
Considering that the 9mm is made in a variety of small packages and is considerably more potent than the .380, and that wide varieties of ammo are readily available, I'd recommend that as my choice over the latter.
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It's cheaper to shoot, too.

Daryl
 
Whoa guys.....

Can the 22 lr. cartridge kill? yep.

Can the 22 lr. cartridge stop an attacker? yep.. through an eye socket, throat, heart.

Is it optimal? Nope.

Long time ago Jeff Cooper, yes THAT one, talked about how if you could not handle well a powerful handgun, like a .45, then maybe .22 lr. was the way to go.

No, not dinky little watchfob size .22s, but something more on the line of a Bersa ‘Thunder’ .22 or Walther PP .22 or Astra .22 Constable. And yes a Glock 26 with AACK .22 unit can do to (I have one.)
That and A LOT of practice will give you the ability to hit small targets fast. Say the size of a light switch at room ranges. That would give you an eye socket hit or throat or even a heart shot.

He felt that while the triad of Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas, that is accuracy, power and speed, has it’s limits. You can be very fast and powerful but if you miss the mark, it’s useless. Same goes for having power and accuracy but to slow. The only combination of two that might work is speed and accuracy. If enough accuracy and speed are combined you just might pull it off.

Now I am not a fan of using the .22 for defense, for most people, but those with handicaps that preclude other options, the .22 is valid. To me it’s more valid than .32 because of low cost ammo allows for much practice (and it don’t with the .32!)

So yes a .22 can work, but it will mean much work on the range to get the skill you need to compensate for the lack of power.

Deaf
 
I'll cut you some slack because your a beginner but it really gets me when people suggest that a 22 will bounce off of someone. Thats the last thing that will happen. It doesn't kill as quick because its so small not because it doesn't penetrate.
 
No doubt a .22 will kill. With the right ballistics but the thing is that out of that Taurus pt-22 it was bouncing everywhere. Out of a 4" barrel, sure. I know a small gun chambered in .22 such as a mini revolver can kill but at greater distances....not so much. A .22 for SD should is for up CLOSE and personal only. Mafia hitmen used .22 very effectivley in close quarter (execution style) shootings. They also used .22 rifles for sniping their targets, one such rifle that I know of used by Philadelphia Crime family was the Nylon 66. Out of longer barrels .22's are VERY DEADLY TO HUMANS!
 
So, no matter what anyone posts, some people will argue *lol*. You're right BigTom, .22 is not a great round for anti-personnel use. You won't be finding many police or military units using .22 handguns, and there's a reason for that.

Most people consider 9mm the first proper defense round for semiautos, and .38+P for revolvers. They are both perfectly adequate. When you go below those two, is when you'll start to see a lot of detractors.
 
the little 22 have killed more people than you my think, it my not kill fast but you will be juat as dead:)
 
I am 100% sure no man has a body anywhere close to as hard as the wooden target. :D And really your chances of ever using that CCW to save your life are next to nill. :eek: That said, I do believe everyone should have the right to self defense by any means, so don't flame me. Just stating facts.
 
I chronographed several .22 loads from a Jimenez (2-1/2" bbl) at 10' from the muzzle a couple of years back. The CCI mini-mag was the best against Federal, Winchester, Remington.

40g round nose
880 FPS
69 FPE

I'm not going to test as to whether it will bounce off me at 10, 20, 50 or 300 feet. Unless I am shooting at steel, it always makes a hole.
 
I carry a NAA 22m with 1 5/8" barrel. Brassfetcher tested three different sizes out of a 2" barrel. the 30 grain CCI +v ,1301 fps, 12+ " penetration.Also have a 4" model that I sometimes carry. If someone would volunteer, I would be glad to shoot them.One of our site members accidently shot himself in the hand with a 22lr,not a pretty sight and it will be another six months before he regains the use of his hand.
 
"But in a mouse gun unless you are within 10 feet maybe 15 I dont see it happening."

My Taurus PT-22 has absolutely no problems putting bullets THROUGH a metal lid for a 55 gallon drum at 50 feet.

Nor does my Iver Johnson TP-22.


I feel more than adequately armed when I carry either one because I know I can hit what I'm shooting at because I practice.
 
Look guys the bouncing off people was sarcasm. LIKE I SAID THE PHILLY CRIME FAMILY USED .22's. Assassins use .22's all of the time. But the demonstration proves its not adequate for SD. Now that said when people say you need a 9mm for SD I disagree. Facts are facts. So heres a fact, Francis Ferdinand, the leader of Austria from 1863-1914 was assassinated while he was in his car from an assailant armed with a .32 ACP! Whats more during WWI and more than half way through WWII Germany and Italy were using the .32 ACP as a sidearm! NOT a 9mm, not a .45! A .32 ACP! Now would I carry a .32 ACP for my SD? No, but if this says anything I should feel just fine carrying a .380 or perhaps a 9mm but the huge calibers are not needed....STILL a .22 for SD? NO, for an assassination, yes, lmao just make sure you closer for EFFECTIVE killing. Idk about you guys but if I had to kill a BG I dont want to watch him bleed out and die, a quick death is much prefered for both parties, he doesnt want to suffer, and you dont want that on your hands. A quick death I wouldnt care so much about. I have the problem of putting my self in others places so I feel bad after. Atleast I know his death was quick...
 
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