A "Last Ditch" Gimmick

G

gvf

Moderator
A bit nuts but: As an actor and teacher of Acting, I came up with something I'd try to use in a last-ditch situation: perp with a gun on me, robbery over, looking like he was going to shoot. (This happened on my street by the way, AFTER the robbery) What to do? I use the following on my students both for fun and for the "lesson", it's called "talking to someone who isn't there". Actors do this all the time, especially in films at times when the camera is on just them:

I would look behind the perp as if I was suddenly looking at someone standing behind him or walking up to him, raise my voice slightly like you do if someone is 8' away or so, and say in an even tone "Hey you, get back". It's close to impossible if someone does that to you, not to momentarily turn your head to see what's behind, even if it's completely illogical for anyone else to be in the room. (Try it sometime with a friend, just make sure your voice is even and only raised a bit, not a shout, and that you look where the "person" would be).

When the perp momentarily turned his head to glance back, THEN I would draw and shoot while moving.

Would it work? Works on my students 100% of the time when I say something to "someone at the door". They all turn their heads. On a perp, in the midst of a crisis? God knows, but if I had the presence of mind I might try it, better than waiting for the bullet or trying to out-draw a drawn gun with the guy looking at you.

For whatever it's worth: thought I'd share it, case someday it helped someone. (If you think it would get them killed instead, post that of course, but this is predicated on the fact you were about to be killed as things were.)
 
Maybe consider shouting, "HELP ME!" to that imaginary person. Might help to distract perps attention if he thinks someone is sneaking up behind him who intends to foil the situation.

Now, I believe this would only work if the perp has complete tunnel vision. If you're in a place that's nice and open, where help could come from almost everywhere, then this tactic would probably have a better chance or working. However, if you're down a street where both of you know there won't be another person out and about, and he's been looking around to make sure no one sees him, you might be screwed... :(
 
My first thought is that this is a very good idea, but how about looking over their shoulder and in a slightly desperate voice say "Officer Help Me!"
 
I agree with jfrey123. It depends on what your environment is. He might be one that can concentrate on just the situation at hand or maybe not. It all depends, but I think it would work on most.
 
I am not sure it would work, but given the idea of talking to an imaginary person, I would shout, "SHOOT HIM, SHOOT THE SONOVABITCH!!!"

I think that is a lot more likely to get his thoughts off me and give me a chance to draw than "Help me", or "Stand back."

Jim
 
Not sure I'd try that last. Picturing myself as the bad guy, I'd neutralize you before trying to defend against an opponent you positively identified as threatening me. If I "knew" there was a definite threat behind me, I sure wouldn't turn my back on you as a second threat after your aggresive shouting.

My vote goes for the "Help Me Officer!" You've not identified yourself as a threat in your own right, and you have identified a situation behind me that I need to at least check.
 
I've tried this several times with a stopwatch.

It takes about 1.5 seconds for someone to look over their shoulder and then back:

It takes a well-trained handgunner ~2.5 seconds to draw a pistol and fire one shot. (there are those who can fire 2 shots off, but they train alot).

Unless you are a quick-draw artist, all you will end up with is a dumb look on your face when the BG turns back and shoots you before you finish pulling out your concealed pistola. I think that movement would be very important in this situation.

Also, what is the backstop for both of you?
 
Just out of curiosity

CWL: how did you try this? Just curious.

I tend to have a Surefire light in my vest pocket with my hand on it - not always for defensive purpose but if I need it quick to see my footing while walking at night. If so, granted 1.5 sec isn't much, but better than 0.0. If I had the presence of mind, in that time you could zap his face with the light while lunging in towards his side view making for behind and keeping the light on his eyes and at arms length from your own body, while trying to draw; he'd now approximately where you were an could fire but it would be blind and he'd himself be out of control unlike two seconds before. By that time, might be possible to fire yourself?

Course, this is so theoretical, God knows what I'd do.
 
One last question about this scenario. Is the BG wearing a face mask? If he isn't he might not plan on allowing you to ID him later and "cap 'yo punk a**" instead of taking the loot and leaving. In that case I would probably try a distraciton technique and attemp to even my odds. If not I'd just let him get away. Money is not worth your life or his, no matter how stupid the BG may be or how hard you work for that money. Life can be taken by us but we can't give it back.
 
gvf,

If you ever get a chance to get some professional training, you will likely work on drawing and presenting a concealed pistol and shooting a target. This gets timed so you can work on iimproving your techique (just don't shoot yourself or do anything else dangerous when practicing this.

2.5 seconds is considered pretty dang good for anyone to be able to draw from concealed, present and shoot into COM of a BG. It usually takes longer unless you have been doing this for a long long time.

Now, have some one time you to see how long it takes for you to look over your shoulder and then back.

Compare the 2 times and see who has the advantage...a 1-second advantage in a gunfight is a lifetime.
 
you can use that 1.5 seconds to get close to him and disarm/ krav maga/ ninpo/ w/e

as a side note i have a body holster for an 8 inch dagger and with a shirt on it takes just under 2 seconds to draw and stab a target 4 feet away with not too much practice anyone else try that?
 
Reverse the roles to see the flaw

If you were holding a criminal at gunpoint, and he did the 'SHOOT HIM!' or 'significant look' routine, what would your SOP be?

Mine would be to instantly shoot the person standing in front of me before turning around to engage the person (or non-person) behind me.

Why?

Because no matter what, I'd have my back to someone, so I'd rather turn my back on a dead or dying man, rather than a live and uninjured man, and have two people to deal with, rather than just the one.

So, try this on me and you'll get shot for your cleverness.

Not all criminals have an immediate action drill for such things, but you can't count on every criminal being stupid, either.

A lack of morals doesn't always equal a lack of intelligence. ;)

And it wouldn't work very well if they have their back to the wall...unless they're really stupid. :D

You should always try to out-think your enemy, but remember the stakes are your life.
 
You know you all assume he would just look over jis shoulder. If some guy is really wired from stress in thi situation he might wheel around and look for the other target. It's a possibility.

Edit: I've been in a situation LIKE this. No guns but some guy threatening me in high school. I looked over his shoulder and smiled. He looked once and looked back but I kept looking over his shoulder. This confused him and he looked back over his shoulder and took a second to glance around, all the time I would have needed to drop him. But since any sort of violence was looked fown upon and with my graduation right around the corner I didn't want any problems so I walked away when he hwas looking th other way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top