A great article on CCW

Under two of his sections he specifically references women - under "Women Should Only Shoot .22s" and "Hand Me Down That Gun"

On this forum I repeatedly see guys come on here and post "Best gun for girlfriend?" "Best CC for wife?"

It's this whole issue of the male getting a gun for a female, and impressing on her the dangers of the world, her likelyhood of being attacked, the need to protect herself, the need to carry a weapon, and getting a weapon, etc, etc...

I went through this twenty years ago this with my wife, and setttled on a Colt Mustang for her. But in retrospect, it was really more about me. It was about my ideas of self defense and carry guns. It was about my anxiety of her not being armed. She never felt the need to carry, and even after I had her read Paxton Quigley's "Armed and Female" and all that, she wasn't really eager to keep a firearm. Now that we're divorced, she doesn't have any firearms at all. She doesn't have a single firearm.

I also don't khow much my own desire for another gun, and the fun I had shopping for one played in my decision to get a Colt Mustang. There may have been some justification of the purchase going on there because my wife was never too keen on the idea.

My attitude has changed on it.

Women are capable of making important decisions - like what car to purchase, or what home to buy. For the most part they educate themselves on all the aspects that they need to know, and they make informed purchasing decisions. I think this idea that they needs males in their lives to steer them straight about guns is ridiculous.

And from what I've seen, when women decide that they want a firearm, they're generally better at going through the education and selection process than males generally
 
I have seen a lot of guys impart BS advice and instruction to women. I have not yet seen a woman do likewise - at least, not with regard to shooting...
 
I also don't khow much my own desire for another gun, and the fun I had shopping for one played in my decision to get a Colt Mustang. There may have been some justification of the purchase going on there because my wife was never too keen on the idea.
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CountZero,

As you can imagine, that's a subject near & dear to my heart. Truthfully, what I see from my perspective is that most of the time, when a husband is pushing his wife like that, it comes from a really good and well-intentioned place. The guys aren't trying to run their wives' lives -- they're trying to protect them from a dangerous world.

I think a lot of times, too, a man who has fallen in love tends to be very fearful of losing the person he loves. Because he fears losing her, he might even feel more fearful for her than she will ever feel for herself. So he pushes her to do things she isn't willing to do on her own behalf. Even though this often ends badly, it starts from a really heartwarming and good place. And because it starts from that good place, it comes across as cold & heartless when we tell people not to do things like that. They think we're criticizing the warmhearted impulse itself, not just remarking on the way these things typically turn out for everyone involved.

Even just telling these guys that their hands aren't the same size as her hands, so she needs to be involved in the gun shopping process, can be enough to make them really unhappy. How can we go on to say, "Also, when she does get a gun, you're not the best one to teach her how to use it"? It's absolutely true, but it's a harsh truth. They want to be the knight in shining armor, the one that rescues her from her own foolish decision not to be armed, the one that teaches her every good thing she needs to know. Because they love her and want her to be safe, and how can they trust anyone who doesn't love her like that to teach her what she needs to know?

Don't have an answer for any of that. Only, as a practical matter, I sure work with a lot of women who come to class with really bad guns that someone else picked out for them. A lot of times, they don't really get excited about learning until someone gives them permission to choose their own firearms for their own reasons, and to make their own decisions about when/where/whether to carry.

But that involves a level of trust that's hard to come by. Giving someone permission to choose well necessarily includes giving them permission to choose badly -- since the key is, permission to choose. And that's a hard, hard thing to ask of a man in love.

pax
 
Aim at the dark shadow!

There was a case on the old CourtTV where a woman did that and nuked hubby coming back from the can.

She claimed all she could see was a dark shadow that scared her. Prosecution had reason to think she killed him on purpose. She had a high tech high exam done testing her spatial frequency contrast function (a Fourier thingee!) which demonstrated that her vision was good enought to see the guy.

It caught my attention as the guy who did the test was a PhD in vision, I know who wrote a chapter for a book I did. She was guilty.

Pax - thanks for the links. Another point for why selective attention research is good for gun folks to know!

I always laugh when someone says that they don't need some retention device or training for OC because their situational awareness is such that they can detect bad guys through walls, etc. Or they don't need an extra mag because their situational awareness will preclude them from being in a spot where one would need one. Like Columbine, or Mumbai? Surprise you are under attack.
 
I sure work with a lot of women who come to class with really bad guns that someone else picked out for them.
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That's why I always hate it when a guy comes sauntering in looking for a "good gun for a woman."

I have no freakin' clue. I mean, really. The last time I checked, the fair sex isn't one homogenous bloc any more than we are. The only way to know is to have the individual who will be using it choose.

...but I'm pretty sure it isn't one of those stupid gimmick guns they paint up in the most condescending shades of pink and lavender. Most female shooters I know really hate that.
 
Pax is so correct. Vicki Farnam has a great presentation of the foilbles of males choosing guns and egos.

During it - despite what she said - one guy had a minor hissy fit because his 'lady' didn't like the compact 1911 he bought her.

He liked it!
 
^ I was thinking about the pink guns the other day. My daughters and I were looking at Chipmunk pistols and I wanted to see which one they liked.

I did find out that they like stainless steel barrels over blued.

But all three of them wanted the pink stocks ! :eek:

Of course, my oldest is only 11. :)
 
That, or husband/boyfriend/brother comes in with a woman, tells me what she needs, recommends something small and impossible for a beginner to shoot well, and informs her that she doesn't need to practice since "most encounters take place within 6/10/12 feet.

Or "get a .40, a 9mm will only pi$$ them off."

Oy vey
 
I must be lucky, my wife had her own handgun when we married. Follishly I bought her a few boxes of ammo....
 
Pax - great points!

I'd like to add that sometimes when a man is into guns, he wants his lady to be into them also. Thus he recommends something that she's just not going to ever become competent with, b/c she isn't all that interested in the gun itself, though she may be very interested in self-protection.

My own wife is perfect example. She likes guns, but she's not into them like I am, so she carries a hammerless revolver for her CCW. I'd prefer she carry a G23 or P229, but it's not going to happen, so why push the issue?

On the upside, I did get a P229 out of the trial-and-error phase of this experience. :D
 
Or "get a .40, a 9mm will only pi$$ them off."
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Ah, yes. I hear all the armchair expert opinions about "knockdown power" and such. A personal favorite:

"A 9mm won't do nothin'. The only thing that'll put a man down with one shot is a .45. I wouldn't trust anything else. So, I'm looking for a gun for the wife, maybe a .25 or something."

If I have a special lady friend who shows an interest in shooting, I give a few minor pointers, but ultimately the decision is hers. Furthermore, I'm going to get someone else to teach her. Credentials and experience go out the window to some point when there's an emotional attachment.
 
>If the average is 2 shots at 6 feet - that doesn't mean all encounters are 2 shots at six feet.<

I really wish the FBI had never published the "gunfight statistics". Let's look at this logically...

Yes, the "average gunfight" is 2-5 shots at 7-10 feet. However: being involved in a gunfight in the first place is a statistical anomaly. Is this REALLY the time to be playing the odds?

>I have no freakin' clue. I mean, really. The last time I checked, the fair sex isn't one homogenous bloc any more than we are. The only way to know is to have the individual who will be using it choose.<

Going by anecdotal evidence, the "ultimate women's gun" is the 1911. EVERY woman I've ever taught to shoot has wanted one...
 
>If the average is 2 shots at 6 feet - that doesn't mean all encounters are 2 shots at six feet.<

Using just an average number without also giving a range (highest and lowest) for the item can often lead to bad decisions, and the statistics of infrequent events is always bad.

If Bill Gates is having a drink in a bar, on average everyone present is a millionaire.

Even the unemployed guys who begged for a single beer.
 
Yes, the "average gunfight" is 2-5 shots at 7-10 feet. However: being involved in a gunfight in the first place is a statistical anomaly. Is this REALLY the time to be playing the odds?
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Anyone familiar with Dennis Teuller's work knows full well that there's little difference between six feet and twenty feet if the attacker is determined.
 
"I'd like to add that sometimes when a man is into guns, he wants his lady to be into them also. Thus he recommends something that she's just not going to ever become competent with, b/c she isn't all that interested in the gun itself, though she may be very interested in self-protection.

My own wife is perfect example. She likes guns, but she's not into them like I am, so she carries a hammerless revolver for her CCW. I'd prefer she carry a G23 or P229, but it's not going to happen, so why push the issue?

On the upside, I did get a P229 out of the trial-and-error phase of this experience."

+1. While my preferred SD pistol is my G23, I felt I should be able to find something better suited for my wife, who has small hands. After an attempted break-in on our house, I wanted a second pistol in the biometric safe so if I needed to leave the bedroom she would have protection. A Taurus 85 (.38 Spl) fit her hand well so we got that....but she still preferred shooting the G23. So I got a G26. She still preferred the G23. So I got a Ruger Mark III so she could at least get more trigger time. She still preferred the G23.

Now I'm richer 3 pistols I like shooting...and wondering if I should buy a second G23. ;D
 
The linked article reiterates my many of my experiences and preferences.

Yes, the "average gunfight" is 2-5 shots at 7-10 feet. However: being involved in a gunfight in the first place is a statistical anomaly. Is this REALLY the time to be playing the odds?
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Would it be correct to say that the average is basically what falls in the 50% (fifty percentile) range?
50% is a failing grade to me.
If you choose a handgun that is only barely likely to be adequate for 50% of the shootings, that means that it won't be adequate for the other 50%.

If a situation arises where deadly force is required, you are most likely to be carrying a handgun rather than a long arm because of size and weight. In that event would you rather to be carrying a 16 oz .380acp or a larger handgun in 9mm, 40S&W, 44 Special, 10mm auto, .357 magnum, .45 Colt, .45ACP, .45GAP (or other cartridges of similar power) with which you have practiced enough regularly to know it is reliable and that you are competent in its use.
This later category of handgun would more likely be more suitable in a larger percentage of self-defense shootings, maybe approaching the 90% range.
I prefer to go for a handgun that rates an A rather than an F (50%).

As has been discussed on this forum many times, the choosing of the firearm is only a starting point. The individual then must decide what level of skill and knowledge they will seek to achieve. It is up to the individual to seek training and to practice to become competent.
 
I'm thinking folks are misunderstanding my comment on "statistical anomalies".

By the statistics, a snub nosed revolver should be "all you need". And if you're comfortable with that, good for you.

Personally, at a minimum. I carry a 6 shot 357, 3 reloads (2 speed strips, 1 speed loader), as well as a Seecamp 32 + reload. That's the minimum *I* carry: YMMV.

I refuse to play the odds: I will stack the deck as much in my favor as possible
 
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