GarandTd, I drove a company vehicle for many years. I drove a lot of miles and had a heavy foot resulting in the occasional speeding ticket. This caused me to be required to take a defensive driving class two different times over years. One of the things that stuck was that backing out of parking space is a dangerous maneuver. As you said, it is far safer to back into one and I almost always do. I do not fit the profile, but if I am parked at the gas and grab I will almost certainly be parked "backwards."
A Good Guy with a Gun Walked into a Store
- Thread starter OldMarksman
- Start date
OldMarksman
Staff
That's fine, unless you get there by driving the wrong way in a one way lane, and have to leave by driving the wrong way.
But even without that, if you do it by the exit, that's something of a red flag, particularly at a "stop and rob" along a highway.
Doesn't really matter, does it? You are not at risk.
Never got through.
It does matter if a nervous bystander with a weapon perceives me as a criminal because I backed into a parking space and am irritated that my passenger is taking a while in the restroom or buying a drink/snack and I'm looking around to see where the heck they are. I think awareness is important as well as avoidance of trouble, but the signs are not always what they seem. It doesn't affect me if I look suspicious and you choose to go elsewhere. It does affect me if you choose to call 911 or try to intervene in a wrongfully perceived threat. I guess my point is, if you're going to avoid situations, good for you, but if you are going to take some sort of action, you better be sure of what you are seeing.
To 911? That's alarming.
OldMarksman
Staff
The operative phrase would be "perceives you as an indication of potential risk"
Why does it matter? If you do not like it, do not conduct yourself as would a getaway driver.
Always true, but calling 911 should have a relatively low threshold for that rule.
A parked-facing-out-by-the-exit-with-the-engine-running observation would be real red flag, regardless of whether some innocent drivers might prefer, for some reason, to do that. It is the best way to get away quickly after a robbery. Innocent explanation possible? Sure.
Leaving is, of course, best.
When the car has come in the wrong way on a one-way road and will head out the wrong way, the indication is a little stronger, and a call Smith well be appropriate.
But not surprising. I knew a parole officer in the city of St. Louis who had been put on hold more than once when reporting violent break-ins to 911.
Don Fischer
New member
I don't really believe you'll actually recognize a bad situation when it show's up. People act strange for a lot of different reason's, doesn't mean they are the bad guy. But if you respond to every one of these situation's you'll probably find the bad guy sooner or later. Kinda like actually shooting someone. Unless your a combat vet you really don't have a clue what you'll do should that time come, I haven't a clue what I'll do. Kinda think I do but in reality I don't!
OldMarksman
Staff
You may not, but if you're lucky, you will.
Absolutely!
People like to talk about "situational awareness". They glance around, believing that they will recognize a "threat".
Here's one that might well have saved some victims, here and in other cities: you are walking alone minding your own business. You notice someone panning with a cell phone camera.
Strange? Maybe.
But if you are about to be suddenly and viciously attacked in a "knockout" game, that is your indication.
What to do? STOP immediately, turn, and put you back to the wall. Be ready to draw instantly.
Could be nothing. But what have you lost?
I think the key is just to pay attention. Noticing things that might be indicators of danger is probably our best way of avoiding trouble. I have changed direction while walking/hiking and changed my mind about getting gasoline more than once in response to a situation or behavior that may have been perfectly innocent and I'm OK with that.
I have also not been paying attention and been reminded of my vulnerability. I was walking my little attack Chihuahua a while back late at night. I live in a small, poor rural community with few street lights, and there are a few dark spots along the way. I always wear a headlamp and carry a good light, but there are a few corners that require a little more attention to maintain enough distance from anyone, whether good or bad. I was not paying attention and one of my neighbors rounded one of those corners at the same time I did. He was literally less than five feet from me and closing fast before I knew he was there. Had he been an attacker, I would have been in trouble.
I don't think we should live in fear, but being aware of our surroundings is foundational to avoidance of trouble. That is more true at the gas and grab than most places.
I have also not been paying attention and been reminded of my vulnerability. I was walking my little attack Chihuahua a while back late at night. I live in a small, poor rural community with few street lights, and there are a few dark spots along the way. I always wear a headlamp and carry a good light, but there are a few corners that require a little more attention to maintain enough distance from anyone, whether good or bad. I was not paying attention and one of my neighbors rounded one of those corners at the same time I did. He was literally less than five feet from me and closing fast before I knew he was there. Had he been an attacker, I would have been in trouble.
I don't think we should live in fear, but being aware of our surroundings is foundational to avoidance of trouble. That is more true at the gas and grab than most places.
The arrogance with which you dismiss my post is quite telling.
You've obviously never had to wake up a neighbor to ask to borrow money for baby formula and instead he decides to go with you and buy it himself rather than giving it to you and risking that you might spend the money on something else.
Rather than denigrate the experience of those who were once poor, you might try giving thanks for your own financial blessings and realize the rest of us may not have been born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
It wasn't a laughing matter at the time. Read my response to Old Markman who had a similar degree of conceit as you.
Not all people who are on edge late at night or early in the morning at a convenience store who might be acting like they need to get out of there as soon as possible are there to rob it.
You should, frankly, be ashamed of your post.
OldMarksman
Staff
Arrogance? Dismiss?
I expanded on the story by explaining why the signs should have been more alarming to me than they were.
How would that influence whether someone might decide to park facing the wrong direction?
You are making assumptions and assertions that are completely unjustified.
Of course not. Do you really want to play the odds when the stakes are high?
In the event, the indications turned out to signal a robbery about to happen. The prudent person will take such indications into account even if they might well turn out to be completely innocent.
Offended much there?
While my post was made with some sense of humor the entirety of your situation regarding infant formula was not made clear in your post and was not made clear until after that. Strangely, while I have lived paycheck to almost getting to the next paycheck and had children at the time, I have never run out of formula in the middle of the night. But hey, that's getting a bit off topic.
My post was intended to have some humor to it to at least touch on another situation. We have this habit of thinking that we somehow can tell the "good guy" from the "bad guy" It is likely, in many cases, we are simply identifying those who are not simply going about their day. Be it based on how they are parked, how aware of their surroundings, or other things. We must be careful that we don't allow our observations to create a situation that sets us on edge and gets out of hand.
A situation happened to me in 1968 , just got back from VN l lived in the projects in NY . The 60's was a crazy time , when home I found home just as dangerous , I started carrying a Colt Combat Commander 45 . One summer night 2 o'clock in the morning on a busy street in the projects , sidewalk well lit , even being aware of my surroundings . I wasn't walking close to parked cars or in the shadows of the buildings . Dead center of the sidewalk , the bad guy still got the jump on me , he was right at my left side so close I couldn't see his arms. I had my hand on the handle of the gun , I pulled it out a stuck it to his forehead , he made a sound an left just as fast. Lucky or could have been unlucky . I carried with a round in the chamber hammer down . He didn't realize it but he had the upper hand. I don't know what he had . I was very lucky , to be honest I don't think I thought about cocking the hammer. And I just got back from a combat tour in VN , crazy times. Always good to be aware & prepare but you don't know how it will play out until it happens. All this time has passed an I still think I can go a few rounds.
In The Ten Ring
New member
I've stepped in (or "stepped up" depending on your worldview) three times to help a stranger facing a robbery and/or violent attack. Twice women were under threat, the other was a police officer.
Things worked out very well each time, no shots were needed, the bad guys surrendered, stopped, or left. All I really had to expect in return was risk to my own life, job, finances, and freedom.
Say you hadn't of gone on in there. Say the guys were a robbery team and in the process killed or crippled the clerk. Would knowing you could have done something but didn't out of fear for your own safety and security bother you? Is that something that would keep you up at night?
There is a newly-retired police officer in Florida that gets to ponder that for whatever time he has left....except in his case he'll be hounded by the press, victims, and victim families for the rest of his days. In your case, I doubt anyone would remind you.
*******
On a more positive note, my uncle had a 1970 Camero with the biggest engine GM put into those cars back then, he had bought it new off the lot. He told me how he pulled into a gas station once for some beers and some hot girl came running out, jumped into the passenger seat, and yelled "HIT IT!"
He said he peeled out of there, blasted down the street, and in a couple of blocks she said "that'll do" and got out. That was all he ever saw of her.
He said he's always wondered if she robbed the place and he ended up her defacto getaway driver. 
Things worked out very well each time, no shots were needed, the bad guys surrendered, stopped, or left. All I really had to expect in return was risk to my own life, job, finances, and freedom.
Say you hadn't of gone on in there. Say the guys were a robbery team and in the process killed or crippled the clerk. Would knowing you could have done something but didn't out of fear for your own safety and security bother you? Is that something that would keep you up at night?
There is a newly-retired police officer in Florida that gets to ponder that for whatever time he has left....except in his case he'll be hounded by the press, victims, and victim families for the rest of his days. In your case, I doubt anyone would remind you.
*******
On a more positive note, my uncle had a 1970 Camero with the biggest engine GM put into those cars back then, he had bought it new off the lot. He told me how he pulled into a gas station once for some beers and some hot girl came running out, jumped into the passenger seat, and yelled "HIT IT!"
He said he peeled out of there, blasted down the street, and in a couple of blocks she said "that'll do" and got out. That was all he ever saw of her.
He said he's always wondered if she robbed the place and he ended up her defacto getaway driver.
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OldMarksman
Staff
No.
I knew the clerk, an I certainly would have been concerned, but I would not have blamed myself for not going in.
Now, had I seen all the signs, gone elsewhere , and not called 911, and had someone been injured, I would likely have thought about what I should have done for a very long time.
OldMarksman
Staff
Exactly.
Moreover,the community will not come forward to help me after the event.
In The Ten Ring
New member
I am a private citizen and not a law enforcement officer. The law enforcement officer has a sworn duty. I do not.
Every time I consider if I have a duty I remember that a good share of the population is opposed to privately armed citizens. Nope. No duty present
This is the mentality that criminals and tyrants both welcome. If and when you or someone you care about could have been helped but wasn't, the guy just passed them by, I hope you remember what you typed here.
Every time I consider if I have a duty I remember that a good share of the population is opposed to privately armed citizens. Nope. No duty present
This is the mentality that criminals and tyrants both welcome. If and when you or someone you care about could have been helped but wasn't, the guy just passed them by, I hope you remember what you typed here.
Those I care about are taught to defend themselves. My three and four year old may not be able to but even I make exception for children and those physically unable. If you (the hypothetical you) decided not to be prepared to defend yourself through some combination of equipment and training the choice is on you not me. I never gauranteed a safe society to anyone. Rob an able bodied adult in front of me = not my problem. Assault a frail elderly woman we are likely to have words that may escalate... I will come out on top.
OldMarksman
Staff
If and when I or someone I care about is in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm, I will surely do what I can to defend me or them.