A First Handgun For a First Time Poster
- Thread starter ArmedBears
- Start date
Metaphysically speaking. (not metaphorically, btw)For the budget the OP is talking about and his experience. I'd get a 22 or 9mm. You find one you like. Glock, Springfield, S&W, Beretta, makes no difference. Find one YOU like. Then spend the rest on a good instructor, buy a lot of ammo, and spend a lot of time at the range to become comfortable and proficient with firearms. The rest of the things you mention, at this time is just a waste of money.
Franz Kafka was an author, perhaps most famous for a book many kids in High School had to read called 'The Metamorphosis'
That aside, the specifics of your stated wants, coupled with your report that you have no experience with a firearm that isn't a BB gun, leads me to caution you when it comes to specifics; you don;t know what you really want, you seem to be making choices based on how you like the reputation or looks- which is fine- but before plunking down cash, I think you should try out these handguns if possible.
My recommendation is 9mm, and bear in mind that your choices are not really just 'steel' or 'polymer'. For example: the P226. A fine pistol. I love mine. It has a steel slide, and an aluminum (hardcoated) frame- not a steel frame.
My suggestion is a Walther P99
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
The conversion kits function but are not at all accurate from all I hear.
My guess is CZ with cadet would be a very good combo. Never thought of CZ as a Veblen brand...
Kimber, maybe.
My guess is CZ with cadet would be a very good combo. Never thought of CZ as a Veblen brand...
Kimber, maybe.
First time buyers I suggest 3 things. 1. 357 revolver. S&W, Taurus or Ruger. Learn to shoot and be safe with something that is basic. Plus you can buy several types of ammo. 2. A 22 like a Ruger MII or Browning Buck Mark. You can learn the fine art of marksmanship with these. 3. Pump shotgun 12 gauge. It is versatile as a hunting rifle and home defense.
After this you are ready to move onto the other calibers and firing systems.
After this you are ready to move onto the other calibers and firing systems.
Onward Allusion
New member
Wow! My head started spinning...
My recommendation is to go to a gun shop that rents guns and shoot the crap out of them. Some stores will charge you by the gun while others will charge you a flat fee and you can pick and choose a few guns to shoot (as long as you don't drive the counter guy nuts with swapping out guns every 15 minutes).
For your budget of $2,500 - you can get a lot more than 2 guns, BTW. If you have that kind of cash to burn, I would recommend picking up a 22LR (Ruger MKIII) and go shooting while you make your mind up.
Lost Sheep
New member
Help us help you.
From the evidence in your post, guns appear to be unknown to you. You have asked us for our help in picking for you. Cool. We love being asked for our opinions.
You, however, are an enigma to us. We have no idea what your needs are, or your desires.
We can tell you what WE desire, but only a mind reader can give you advice reasonably expected to be valid (or useful) to you if we don't know your needs. Please fill us in.
By the way, I find it odd that anyone who knows the work of Veblen does not know the works of Kafka or his reputation. When I put that together with your embrace of the Veblen effect when he himself thought the quality meretricious (a new word for me that I found just for you), I am compelled to ask; Are you Trolling?
Lost Sheep
From the evidence in your post, guns appear to be unknown to you. You have asked us for our help in picking for you. Cool. We love being asked for our opinions.
You, however, are an enigma to us. We have no idea what your needs are, or your desires.
We can tell you what WE desire, but only a mind reader can give you advice reasonably expected to be valid (or useful) to you if we don't know your needs. Please fill us in.
By the way, I find it odd that anyone who knows the work of Veblen does not know the works of Kafka or his reputation. When I put that together with your embrace of the Veblen effect when he himself thought the quality meretricious (a new word for me that I found just for you), I am compelled to ask; Are you Trolling?
Lost Sheep
That was my first thought also, but we've given him the benefit of the doubt which shows the mostly kind nature of people here.
I really like the suggestion of a CZ-75 variant and the Kadet Kit. I often recommend this combination to first time shooters/gun owners. A 9MM CZ-75B, SP-01, or one of the compacts with the addition of the .22LR Kadet Kit conversion is a great comb. Mine goes with me to the range every time. They can be a little hard to locate, but if you search you can find them and have a local FFL do a transfer. Actually, you can buy the Kadet Kit, and have it shipped to your door as it is not considered a gun (no serial number).
I was dissapointed the OP listed a CZ as one he wouldn't consider. Big mistake. They are neither cheap nor low quality. Well, hope I didn't scare him off with my literary references.
ArmedBears
Inactive
I first thought Kafka was a reference to some epic thread for first timers. After some searching I do recall reading The Metamorphosis in a collection of short stories but was not familiar with the author in terms of his contributions to literature. I was going for something akin to stream of consciousness in the sense that I wanted to encapsulate the psychological complexities of purchasing a firearm. My intentions with the biases was more to hyperbolise the assumptions drawn from reading the likes of this site, ar15.com, and hf.net. I didn't intend to knock any particular brand, I buy my cereal bagged and it tastes just as good. I wouldn't engorge on a particular firearm. Who knows now though, if the definition for Kafkaesque is unflattering I may have to up my budget!
I'm set on purchasing at least two handguns and am now convinced I should make room to include a .22 in the aforementioned budget. Why two? In all likelihood I won't be able to find every handgun I want to test and those I do find will be tested for limited duration in one dimensional settings. I feel the diversity will help in later allocating handguns to different roles and it would be fun to alternate platforms from one course to the next.
First and foremost I want to ensure that I buy quality and reliability. I look at each firearm as an investment in function that may one day save a life. Any “safe queen” would log just as many training hours though it may sit on the bench till an intruder in a snazzy enough tuxedo warranted its use. I should have omitted “collecting” from my original post.
To those with revolver suggestions. I'm definitely not trying for cowboy. The possible roles for a revolver would be a backpacking handgun, a vehicle handgun w/ alternating fmj/hp (shooting through glass), and perhaps the same fmj/hp setup for winter ccw. Revolvers are the likely minority.
To help isolate things I'll upgrade to a definitive need for a home defense handgun. Assuming a shotgun is always present, my bedroom door is always locked, and I never have children, this handgun needn't be used less I'm holed up on the phone w/ 911 and simultaneously firing to suppress. Most feedback seems to make a weapon light mandatory.
I probably will reload my own ammo but want to wait for proper teaching on the subject and my handloads are clearly defined.
I know this is still very open ended. I probably will end up buying on love at first sight and drawing the other from a hat.
Thanks for all the replies.
I'm set on purchasing at least two handguns and am now convinced I should make room to include a .22 in the aforementioned budget. Why two? In all likelihood I won't be able to find every handgun I want to test and those I do find will be tested for limited duration in one dimensional settings. I feel the diversity will help in later allocating handguns to different roles and it would be fun to alternate platforms from one course to the next.
First and foremost I want to ensure that I buy quality and reliability. I look at each firearm as an investment in function that may one day save a life. Any “safe queen” would log just as many training hours though it may sit on the bench till an intruder in a snazzy enough tuxedo warranted its use. I should have omitted “collecting” from my original post.
To those with revolver suggestions. I'm definitely not trying for cowboy. The possible roles for a revolver would be a backpacking handgun, a vehicle handgun w/ alternating fmj/hp (shooting through glass), and perhaps the same fmj/hp setup for winter ccw. Revolvers are the likely minority.
To help isolate things I'll upgrade to a definitive need for a home defense handgun. Assuming a shotgun is always present, my bedroom door is always locked, and I never have children, this handgun needn't be used less I'm holed up on the phone w/ 911 and simultaneously firing to suppress. Most feedback seems to make a weapon light mandatory.
I probably will reload my own ammo but want to wait for proper teaching on the subject and my handloads are clearly defined.
I know this is still very open ended. I probably will end up buying on love at first sight and drawing the other from a hat.
Thanks for all the replies.
ArmedBears
Inactive
Any suggestions on a range where I could find an awesome selection to shoot from. All New England is accessible for day trips.
Lost Sheep
New member
OK, here are some recommendations to consider
OK, here's a list of handguns that have appeal Veblen would find exemplary but for the fact that they are also legitimately fine firearms.
Browning Hi-Power, but only if made in Belgium.
Desert Eagle
Colt Gold Cup. 45 ACP or 38 Super (the 38 has not been produced in 20 years, though)
Coonan (.357 Semi-automatic, built on the Colt/Browning design, but using the .357 Magnum revolver cartridge) Was discontinued for a while, but is now back in production.
(edit: I misspelled "now back in production" as "not back in production". It is fixed, now.)
Dan Wesson, the Four-Barrel pistol pack. If you can find one built in Monson, MA, so much the better.
Dan Wesson .357 Maximum.
Colt Anaconda (44 Magnum or 45 Colt)
Colt Diamondback (38 Special)
Colt Python (.357 Magnum)
Ruger Redhawk .357 Magnum (Very rare to find for sale and possibly the strongest .357 Magnum in the world)
Ruger 30 Carbine revolver will turn heads like nobody's business when you light one off at the range, but the "oooh" factor is almost nil unless you are shooting it.
Now, if you just want the latest and greatest "Wondernine", there is always another one coming down the pike, but my money would be on the Calico introduced around 1990 with a helical magazine that came in two sizes, 50 and 100 rounds of 9mm Parabellum. Now, THAT will turn some heads.
What would I do in your position?
An Olympics-quality 22 rimfire. And learn to shoot. Attracting attention in any other way than with good marksmanship is just self-aggrandizement. (Or what the preacher said in "Blazing Saddles", http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/quotes?qt=qt0511684 )
I would like to point out that the CZ design is regarded by many as the best design for a fighting pistol the world has ever seen. Some of the copies are less than well-executed, but the design...
And to round out the selection (for now) if you can find a Downsizer 45 ACP. Single shot and smaller than a playing card. I know of one owner who has paid for his by making $5 bets that you can't fire one twice within a five-minute period (including reloading).
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350315
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229949
Then there is the reverse snob appeal of the Hi-Point. Get one and have it accurized. Confuse everybody.
Lost Sheep
OK, here's a list of handguns that have appeal Veblen would find exemplary but for the fact that they are also legitimately fine firearms.
Browning Hi-Power, but only if made in Belgium.
Desert Eagle
Colt Gold Cup. 45 ACP or 38 Super (the 38 has not been produced in 20 years, though)
Coonan (.357 Semi-automatic, built on the Colt/Browning design, but using the .357 Magnum revolver cartridge) Was discontinued for a while, but is now back in production.
(edit: I misspelled "now back in production" as "not back in production". It is fixed, now.)
Dan Wesson, the Four-Barrel pistol pack. If you can find one built in Monson, MA, so much the better.
Dan Wesson .357 Maximum.
Colt Anaconda (44 Magnum or 45 Colt)
Colt Diamondback (38 Special)
Colt Python (.357 Magnum)
Ruger Redhawk .357 Magnum (Very rare to find for sale and possibly the strongest .357 Magnum in the world)
Ruger 30 Carbine revolver will turn heads like nobody's business when you light one off at the range, but the "oooh" factor is almost nil unless you are shooting it.
Now, if you just want the latest and greatest "Wondernine", there is always another one coming down the pike, but my money would be on the Calico introduced around 1990 with a helical magazine that came in two sizes, 50 and 100 rounds of 9mm Parabellum. Now, THAT will turn some heads.
What would I do in your position?
An Olympics-quality 22 rimfire. And learn to shoot. Attracting attention in any other way than with good marksmanship is just self-aggrandizement. (Or what the preacher said in "Blazing Saddles", http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/quotes?qt=qt0511684 )
I would like to point out that the CZ design is regarded by many as the best design for a fighting pistol the world has ever seen. Some of the copies are less than well-executed, but the design...
And to round out the selection (for now) if you can find a Downsizer 45 ACP. Single shot and smaller than a playing card. I know of one owner who has paid for his by making $5 bets that you can't fire one twice within a five-minute period (including reloading).
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350315
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229949
Then there is the reverse snob appeal of the Hi-Point. Get one and have it accurized. Confuse everybody.
Lost Sheep
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sirgilligan
New member
Browning Hi-Power
STI Trojan
SIG 210 - well there goes your budget.
Too bad you ruled out CZ.
STI Trojan
SIG 210 - well there goes your budget.
Too bad you ruled out CZ.
You want simple? Ask what is the most reliable high capacity 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP money can buy for (insert $$$ range here).
Then ask what is the most effective ammunition against (insert threat here).
You'll get hundreds of options but that's better than thousands of options.
Weed through all the BS and PO (personal opinions) and you'll have many dozens of options... any one of which will be fine if you did your HW (home work).
Then ask what is the most effective ammunition against (insert threat here).
You'll get hundreds of options but that's better than thousands of options.
Weed through all the BS and PO (personal opinions) and you'll have many dozens of options... any one of which will be fine if you did your HW (home work).
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Wait, OP wants a gun that suffers from Veblen effect...
I misread that.
I can be of no help in this thread.
Well, avoid all of my previous suggestions.
I misread that.
I can be of no help in this thread.
Well, avoid all of my previous suggestions.