Thunderhawk88
Moderator
Poor lil' felons. I have to replace a hard-drive at a prison in the morning, come on out and see all these poor felons. 
I'm done with this thread....
I'm done with this thread....
A felon's right to self defense
- Thread starter cold dead hands
- Start date
Thunderhawk88
Moderator
Misdemeanor, sure. Petty felony? No.
If you think it's wrong then get the law changed. I made no distinction on whatever crimes they were convicted of.
Pooof.......
TheCaretaker
New member
You go along with my line of thinking. People would be much better served changing laws, and blocking new laws which could put a felony mark on someones record for "lesser" crimes.
To simply open the floodgates and allow all felons to buy and own guns because they are out of prison I find rather disturbing. I guess we should also not have lists of sex offenders on the web either, nor require them to report their location for the rest of their lives.
Personally, I don't even understand why a child molester is allowed back on the street at all, let alone arm them for their next rape. I much rather see the gun go to the victim, so they can take care of the next perp.
i never ment open the flood gates and let all felons buy guns.
my opinion is that there is a distinction in the felony that is comitted.
i think if you comitted a lessor crime you serve your sentence and probation and have reformed you should get the right to a gun back.
my opinion is that there is a distinction in the felony that is comitted.
i think if you comitted a lessor crime you serve your sentence and probation and have reformed you should get the right to a gun back.
the law makes a destinction in the felony comitted which is why you get a few years for fraud and life sentence or death for murder and your name on the sex offenderds list ect. ect.
That's not the point. The point is the rigidity of a position. Its hard to determine the line between black and white with many issues. Its easy to see the distinction but a what point does one cross it. If the insurance lie is over XXX dollars it could be a felony. Is that in the same league as child molesting, murder, rape, armed robbery? No, its not but its still a felony. I'm all for tougher sentences for crimes involving guns. As I think most people are. I'm also in favor of developing and using better rehabilitation methods for drugs and crime. I'm also very aware that there are many who are can not be rehabilitated and they should be removed from society.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Right, part of the law is tempered to the type of crime committed, but the part of the felony conviction that isn't tempered is the loss of rights. With felonies, you get a loss of rights plus X amount of prison time. You can automatically get out of prison when your time is done, but you don't automaticaly get back any lost rights.
It is just too damn bad for the felons who risked their precious rights when the elected to commit their felonies. If they were willing to risk their rights and ended up caught and convicted, then maybe they really don't hold those rights as being precious or important and not only legally should not get them back, but don't deserve to get them back.
cold dead hands
Moderator
And your children and spouse are not to be forgiven when they have wronged and angered you. They gave up the right to your precious love by deliberately going out of their way to anger you.
I am not a religious man and I have walked out of churches that have ''spiritual leaders'' that sound like you.
If you do go to church, you might want to ask your spiritual leader if god says that any man is to be denied the right to the most effective means of self and familial defense because of his sins. I do believe we are supposed to hate the sin, and love the sinner. You hate the sinner. That is very obvious. You might to talk to your spiritual advisor about what god thinks about that too.
If a person is that much of a threat then his rights to walk the streets need to be revoked. If he is deemed safe enough to be let out of the cage then give him the right to be armed in his home. You still seem to think that this about turning them loose with everyday carry permits.
I am willing to bet that I am talking to a wall on this, but maybe, just maybe, you may want to consider mentally putting yourself in the position of a scumbag who is surrounded by scumbags. Scumbags don't care about other scumbags and that is why they rob, steal from, and kill one another as well as non scumbags. A good portion of scumbags got their felonies by hurting other scumbags and getting caught.
You are honestly going to tell me that you would think, ''Well, I am scumbag, so I have no right to own a gun to kill another scumbag who has decided to come into my house and kill me, rape my woman and do god knows what to my kids. And when he (and his cohorts, if any) are done being violent, they are going to take anything they can.''
If your spouse caught a felony (and you didn't seperate and file for divorce because of it since you are so loathing people with felonies) would you deny her right to defend herself if you were out of the house or would your self righteous views on felons leave her and your kids as a sheep for the wolves?
TheCaretaker
New member
I think you have a great point. Lets round up all the scumbags with felonies, take them to their own isle, and arm each of them to the teeth. After a few months we will go back, knowing the scumbags that are still standing need to be executed as they MUST be the worst of the scumbags to be still alive!
On a side note: Is anyone else getting the feeling Cold Dead Hands might have a little something something on his record?
cold dead hands
Moderator
I gots me a little blue card issued by the Arkansas State Police that says I's can carry ma' gun anywheres I wants to 'cept for places that be off limits and buildings with a ''no guns'' sticker at the entrance. The FBI told 'em it was okie dikie to let me have it.
Would you like to question my morals as well? How about if I am a good father? Exactly what was the point of you suggesting that I am a felon?
I am so glad you passed judgement without knowing me.
TheCaretaker
New member
I apologize if I offended you. We are on a forum, so being able to "get to know personally" is highly unlikely for many of us. Regardless of how nonjudgmental one would like to be, the only way to consider different arguments is to consider possible reasons for making the claims. Rightfully or wrongly, after I read many of the topics you have started, and the responses you have given, I pondered the question, which was the reason for the comment.
I do still wonder, and would like to know if your willing to share, why you have such strong views for those with felony convictions. I do not share the outlook, probably because of my personal experiences. The friends that I have which got into trouble in the past, have never been convicted of a felony. Even one person which I will loosely consider a friend that has been arrested for dug charges more then once has always gotten the charges reduced keeping his record felony free.
So once again, I am sorry if you took my comment as a person insult. I just wondered if others are curious as to your motives.
I do still wonder, and would like to know if your willing to share, why you have such strong views for those with felony convictions. I do not share the outlook, probably because of my personal experiences. The friends that I have which got into trouble in the past, have never been convicted of a felony. Even one person which I will loosely consider a friend that has been arrested for dug charges more then once has always gotten the charges reduced keeping his record felony free.
So once again, I am sorry if you took my comment as a person insult. I just wondered if others are curious as to your motives.
cold dead hands
Moderator
Ok. I almost lost my right to legally own and carry because of a (former) friend and her disregard for the law. In Arkansas, the law states the home owner or the person(s) listed on a lease are responsible for the contents of the building. At that time I was going through a horrible divorce and my friend came over to cheer me up. She wanted me to get high in an attempt to get out of my depression.
I told her I did not to get high and that if she wanted to she should go to the back of the apartment and blow it out the window so as not to stink up my apartment. It just so happens that while she is smoking two cops are responding to a call about my neighbor. After they finish with the neighbor they come to my door and demand to be let in. I figure it is the girl's pot, let her take the fall for having it.
I get the cuffs and she gets to go home. My guns are taken as evidence for the crime of simultaneous posession of pot and firearms. I am charged with a felony and processed as one. After sitting in my cell for about 4 hours I am reprocessed as a misdemeanor and allowed to make bail instead of being transported to the county jail. It turns out that girly didn't quite have an ounce so I was spared the felony.
My excellent lawyer had a little talk with the prosecutor about the whole mess was handled (she said the police almost screwed themselves) and my situation at the time of arrest. I got one year of good behavior probation and a small fine. My records are sealed up the federal level (even the State Police had troubles checking my records and it held up my permit for one month) and it is in my past never to trouble me again.
I know that some of you are going to say that my crime was at minimum guilt by association. I'll buy that. That isn't an actual criminal charge. But I wasn't the real criminal and I wasn't commiting the crime. You would say I was a facilitator of the crime. I am not buying that. My heart and mind were shattered by what my wife did to me and I wasn't thinking too clearly. I was glad to have to have someone who cared around. If I had known that she would complicate my life with criminal charges on top of getting a divorce I would told her to stay away.
There you go. That is my criminal history. A non criminal minded mistake almost stole my rights. There are those here who will say I deserved to lose those rights. They'd be wrong, regardless of how high their horse stands.
It goes deeper that that though. The egalitarian in me says a man's home is his castle and he deserves castle doctrine regardless of his past. I have known some felons who put their past behind them and have tried to make amends to society. They deserve their rights back as far as keeping a gun in the home. I don't care if anyone disagrees with me on this issue. I will not waver.
The 2A doesn't make exceptions and anybody here who claims to believe that it is the only gun law we need, yet says no guns for felons is a hypocrite. The founding fathers knew there were felons running around then. I am am pretty sure they would have denied the right to own guns for felons had they wanted that clause included, but they didn't because they knew that everyman has the right to protect himself from his government and his fellow man.
TheCaretaker
New member
Thank you, as I now have a clear picture of how and why you have the feelings on these issues.
I think your situation does show two things. First, as with the people I know, charges are dropped or lowered as to not put felony marks on most people without truly earning it. And second, many laws such as what they tried to stick you with should be changed, as they are obviously bad law.
Again, thanks for sharing your story, I know it opened my eyes to your heart and situation greatly.
Jermtheory
New member
pretty sure it was a felony i was charged with(at 17 y/o),for having a baseball bat laying in my back seat.
although thankfully,my lawyer was able to get the evidence suppressed and the case thrown out.
long story short...
the officer just "didnt like the way i looked" and had no cause for the stop to begin with.he claimed i made "a wide left hand turn"....but i never hit the curb(which he admitted) and was turning onto a single lane road with a curb.
probably would have been convicted on the bs CC charge if the evidence wasnt suppressed though.
although thankfully,my lawyer was able to get the evidence suppressed and the case thrown out.
long story short...
the officer just "didnt like the way i looked" and had no cause for the stop to begin with.he claimed i made "a wide left hand turn"....but i never hit the curb(which he admitted) and was turning onto a single lane road with a curb.
probably would have been convicted on the bs CC charge if the evidence wasnt suppressed though.
Jermtheory
New member
im assuming it was a felony charge(although im not certain)...
it was about 13 years ago,just outside of Toledo OH.
it was about 13 years ago,just outside of Toledo OH.
44capnball
New member
Friend of mine was threatened with felony arrest for carrying a fillet knife... while he was fishing He barely talked his way out of that one.
I did a search and found these.
violate McCain-Feingold, real easy to do... felony
http://www.reason.com/news/show/35634.html
kids draw violent pictures... felony
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-37593.html
asking people to hit f5 on their computer is a felony
http://techdirt.com/articles/20060106/171254_F.shtml
kutztown students face felony charges
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/6541/
couple faces felony charges for converting their car to run on vegetable oil
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070307/133704.shtml
butt pat could get boys jail time
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3406214&page=1
colored flour = felony terrorism charges
http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/08/30/colored-flour-felony-terrorism-charges/
videotaping the police brings felony wiretap charges
http://www.brendanloy.com/wp/2007/06/man-faces-felony-charge-for-recording-traffic-stop.html
man convicted for mile-high makeout (felony, 20 years)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18493270/
have you ever committed a felony?
http://www.reason.com/news/show/33689.html
I am all for getting tough on violent felons. But if some of these other things are really felonies maybe we need to look at what's going on here. When I read these I feel sad for our country.
I know a "felon".
I am holding his guns for him. Technically, he gave them to me. He was my best shooting buddy for years. He has been and still is my closest friend.
As a Marine, he served at least 2 tours and saw combat in the Dominican Republic.
In 1967 (as a civilian) he was arrested, immediately confessed and asked for leniency. He was given probation and was told by someone (he doesn't remember who) that his record would be expunged after he had served his sentence. Sometime after probation was over, he joined the Army and went to Vietnam. After the Army, he served in the Nat. Guard. He was also a Sheriff's deputy for a while.
For years, he bought and sold many firearms and enjoyed shooting ... all the time believing that it was completely legal. He passed several background checks with no problems. He thought that his crime had been "forgiven".
After the Instant Check System went into effect, he was refused when he tried to buy a new pistol. That was how he found out that his felony was still on the books. He had me go over to his house and pick up his guns and wouldn't tell me why. I kept bugging him to "spill it" (he was obviously very depressed and I was afraid he was suicidal) and he finally did.
His crime is a Federal offense ... there's no such thing as expungement. Someone told him wrong on that point. He would have confessed anyway. It's the kind of man he is. He was convicted of sending obscene material through the U.S. Mail. He cursed someone out in a letter and used the "F" word.
I know his case is by no means typical but it still infuriates me to see a broad brush used against "felons".
I am holding his guns for him. Technically, he gave them to me. He was my best shooting buddy for years. He has been and still is my closest friend.
As a Marine, he served at least 2 tours and saw combat in the Dominican Republic.
In 1967 (as a civilian) he was arrested, immediately confessed and asked for leniency. He was given probation and was told by someone (he doesn't remember who) that his record would be expunged after he had served his sentence. Sometime after probation was over, he joined the Army and went to Vietnam. After the Army, he served in the Nat. Guard. He was also a Sheriff's deputy for a while.
For years, he bought and sold many firearms and enjoyed shooting ... all the time believing that it was completely legal. He passed several background checks with no problems. He thought that his crime had been "forgiven".
After the Instant Check System went into effect, he was refused when he tried to buy a new pistol. That was how he found out that his felony was still on the books. He had me go over to his house and pick up his guns and wouldn't tell me why. I kept bugging him to "spill it" (he was obviously very depressed and I was afraid he was suicidal) and he finally did.
His crime is a Federal offense ... there's no such thing as expungement. Someone told him wrong on that point. He would have confessed anyway. It's the kind of man he is. He was convicted of sending obscene material through the U.S. Mail. He cursed someone out in a letter and used the "F" word.
I know his case is by no means typical but it still infuriates me to see a broad brush used against "felons".