A different discussion on OC hand guns- ( worth the read )

[Casimer]

I endorse the right to OC and don't find it aggressive, but what does raise an eyebrow with me is ostentatious OC.

You'll notice that an OC rig that's appropriate for public settings typically doesn't draw much attention. People who aren't familiar with OC tend to assume that the wearer is a detective or similar authority. But when someone carries in a way that's inappropriate, they're seen as dangerous. They're signaling that they want to be noticed, and the natural response is to question why, and whether they might be a threat. I find myself doing this, and am otherwise very comfortable with firearms, but seeing a grown man playing dress up with a firearm does cause me to wonder.

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

Maybe I missed this somewhere, but I do believe that your location and situation can have some influence on the "acceptability".

Yes, location matters if OC is acceptable. Out in the woods, out on the farm a gun is a tool so easy access is needed. Going to the book store ( no not_that_ kind of book store ) and standing around during kid story reading time isn't acceptable and aggressive.

What I consider aggressive also takes into account the attitude of the carrier. If they are loud, pushy and walk around making sure everyone sees they are carrying it does the more subtle OC people no good.

Support_and_Defend understands that a shiny gun is more visible than something fully covered and black.

As for the party, the gun will be a prop so no problem with OC there however keeping it loaded is risky. I can just see a non gun person or kid grabbing the gun as a prank and shooting someone.

The whole reason to OC thing still boils down to 2 catagories, easy access and sending a visible message to a possible aggerssor.

This thread has been pretty stable, thanks everyone for keeping it level.

 

[azredhawk44]

Most OC'ers that enjoy making a scene while OC'ing, tend to do so using cheapo "gun bucket" nylon holsters that flip-flop all over the place and have a spare magazine forward of the pistol's sights, attached to the holster (and on the wrong side for anything resembling a sensible reload technique).

I often see young 20-something kids at Wallyworld with unloaded guns (mags out, even!) and cheap "gun bucket" holsters, buying ammo. This is the OC for attention crowd.

Most OC'ers that just prefer OC and don't make a scene, tend to discretely carry their pistol high and tight against their side, in a sturdy and well cared for holster.

I see folks like this all over the place. Funny thing is, I'm one of the few people that even notice them. I suspect most other folks just consider them plainclothes cops or something, because these people maintain positive control over their guns and don't even seem to subconsciously fiddle with them.

IMO, if you're gonna OC... get a holster that doesn't suck. Gun-bucket velcro jobs are good for having "something right now" when you buy a new gun, but a proper holster is worth the 2 boxes of ammo it will cost you, you cheapskate. Plop down at the computer and get a proper holster fitted to your gun and carry style. 'Cuz that nylon POS is an accident waiting to happen (snatch and grab, re-holstering and the retention snap gets in the trigger guard, pistol cants inwards to your thigh on the draw, etc).

 

[AZAK]

The whole reason to OC thing still boils down to 2 catagories, easy access and sending a visible message to a possible aggerssor.

And not to forget: comfort.

Also, much easier to carry larger firearms OWB which oftentimes in reality becomes OC. And yes, I do rarely carry Government 1911s IWB, not as much fun as OWB. I never did even bother trying with my .44 mags IWB; sure it can be done, but again no fun.

IWB is usual for many who CC. I do not care for IWB, occasionally do so, and do not enjoy it compared to OWB carry; and over the years I have tried many, many holsters, hence my "holster drawer" (and it is a BIG drawer).

However, with a good OWB holster CCing is pretty much daily how I go out into the world; also how I go OCing with the same holsters.

 

[AK103K]

It is really sad to hear such comments coming from the "pro-gun", "pro-2A" group.

It might be sad, but its just the way it is. Just becasue its a "right", doesnt mean youre right. Unfortunately, things are not as black and white as many seem to think. If you think I'm wrong, just ask any lawyer.

But when someone carries in a way that's inappropriate, they're seen as dangerous. They're signaling that they want to be noticed, and the natural response is to question why, and whether they might be a threat. I find myself doing this, and am otherwise very comfortable with firearms, but seeing a grown man playing dress up with a firearm does cause me to wonder.

Exactly.


I'm not against OC, and if you want to, as I said before, have at it (I'll take all the decoys I can get ) .

Personally, even if we all had VT or AK type laws, I'd still carry mine concealed, at least 99.9% of the time. I dont need or want the attention, good or bad, and I prefer to have every "edge" I can, and would prefer my gun to be a surprise, if its ever needed.

Just from the standpoint of protecting the gun itself too, after 30 some odd years of carrying one every day, wear and tear on an exposed gun is a lot worse than on one thats carried IWB, and its still bad enough IWB too. If youre "really" working outside, day in, day out, and are the least bit active, you know exactly what I mean. If youre just out for a parade, its not near as bad.

 

[Support_and_Defend]

As for the party, the gun will be a prop so no problem with OC there however keeping it loaded is risky. I can just see a non gun person or kid grabbing the gun as a prank and shooting someone.

No worries. It's an adult birthday party and most of the participates will be carrying real guns themselves!

In an environment where its not the norm or easily accepted, its aggressive.

It is really sad to hear such comments coming from the "pro-gun", "pro-2A" group.

It might be sad, but its just the way it is. Just becasue its a "right", doesnt mean youre right.

I disagree with you. Regardless of the environment, open carry can be less agressive than concealed carry. In order to defend myself against crime while concealed carrying, at some point during the encounter I am going to have to take "agressive" action meaning removing the gun and aiming it at the perpetrator. Interviews with convicted felons indicates that the majority of time a visible firearm is going to keep the felon from attacking the armed person and move on to an apparantly unarmed target. Deterrence is less agressive than defensive action in that I only, hopefully, have to have my gun visible to the criminal, in my holster, in order to deter them. I don't have to draw it and aim it at them, unless they choose to attack me anyway and/or don't see the gun.

I wear my gun openly in the hope of peacefully deterring a crime. The concealed carrier only has the hope of being able to aggressively defend against a crime once it has started. This peaceful deterrence is the objective regardless of the crowd that may observe me. People who see that as agressive have simply bought into the lies that the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun groups have been pounding into their brains.

 

[AK103K]

Regardless of the environment, open carry can be less agressive than concealed carry.

Go down to one of the east coast, or west coast, or for that matter, most any of the medium to large cities and see how well you make out with carrying in the open. Even out here in the sticks where I live, where everyone still has a rifle or shotgun in the window racks, its not seen often, and when it is, it quickly draws attention, on the are occasions you see it, more than it doesnt.

I wear my gun openly in the hope of peacefully deterring a crime.

Hey, give any reason you like. Like I said, you can do as you wish, it is still somewhat of a free country, depending where you live.

The concealed carrier only has the hope of being able to aggressively defend against a crime once it has started.

As far as carrying concealed and being aggressive, youre damn right its going to be aggressive. If I have to draw my gun, regardless of how its carried, its going to very aggressive, there will not be any misinterpretation there.

If you think standing there, wearing your gun like a movie cowboy, and giving a steely look at a possible evil doer isnt being aggressive, then you have a more liberal idea as to the definition of the word. To "deter" is to be aggressive.

This peaceful deterrence is the objective regardless of the crowd that may observe me.

If your disturbing the timid, then youre not being "peaceful". In many places, your peaceful display, may well bring a disturbing the peace charge, justified or otherwise.

If you think an openly carried gun will deter a determined person, I think you need to rethink some things. And that just assuming that person is 100% clear of mind, and not mentally disturbed, drunk, or for what ever other reason. Why give anyone the edge by showing your hand?

People who see that as agressive have simply bought into the lies that the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun groups have been pounding into their brains.

I pay as much attention to Brady, as I do to the NRA. If both went away, we'd be better off.

 

[Support_and_Defend]

If your disturbing the timid, then you're not being "peaceful"

Ahhh... so the Brady Bunch followers that are scared by the possibility of you carrying a concealed gun; and thus want to ban handgun carrying and even possession completely; are, therefore, by your definition causing you to act in an aggressive manner. After all, it is your desire to carry a gun in any manner, and the fact that you can obtain a permit to do so that scares them.

(Can you use more than one semicolon in a sentence?)

 

[popbang]

I think OC done for reasons other than to make a show may be good way to reintorduce sheeple to firearms, and it can show them that not all people who have firearms are not whack jobs.

I do think ther is value in OC to deter. Many crimes are crimes of oppertunity. For these knowing that the person by the milk cooler has a gun may change their mind.

It is so sad that people are afraid to see an open gun.

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

I think OC done for reasons other than to make a show may be good way to reintorduce sheeple to firearms, and it can show them that not all people who have firearms are not whack jobs.

Of course people that have firearms are not wack jobs, they ( you ) just resort to name calling in a attempt to educate the very people they ( you ) are belittling.

I do think ther is value in OC to deter. Many crimes are crimes of oppertunity. For these knowing that the person by the milk cooler has a gun may change their mind.

Well sure, there are crimes of opportunity however a criminal desperate enough to go after someone in a quickie mart in the middle of the day isn't likely to scope out their carry piece. And besides, if they come after you with a knife ( likely ) it will be over before you even know what happened. Also not putting one's self in a position to get mugged goes along way to preventing crime. ( No 1AM trips to the seedy part of town to get a pack of gum. )

It is so sad that people are afraid to see an open gun.

It isn't afraid of the gun, it's wondering why does that person have a gun on display and what are they going to do with it? ( All the while the CC gun owner is gliding through the shopping mall uninhibited. )

It's so sad that people are afraid to see kids on the street corner dressed in hoodies, baggy pants and bling.


On another note, I've figured out another byproduct of CC / OC. Whatever method is used, it gives one the feeling ( real or not ) of being in control of ones situation.

Some people would rather drive a car than fly in a commercial air liner for fear of the plane crashing. Even though 33,000 people die each year in car crashes and there are a total of 5,803,500 incidents per year ( that sounds high but the news cited 15,900 as the daily # ) driving makes them feel in control of their situation. Commercial airlines have a death rate of what, sub 1,000 and a crash rate of less than that? ( If someone has the stats, please post )

Need proof that the illusion of control makes people feel safe? During the 50's - 60's there was the "Duck and Cover" drill in case of nuclear attack. School children were to duck under their desks, farmers to dive into a gully, office workers to go to the center of a building. ( you've seen the news reels with the turtle in a CD helmet pulling into his shell while the Duck and Cover jingle is sung in the background ) None of this would be of much good in a real nuke attack but it would prevent mass panic / worry during daily life by giving people the feeling they would be in control of their situation should the need arise. ( See also the recent panic buying of ammo )

 

[JayCee]

While I support the right to open carry, I would never do it myself in an urban setting. It's too easy for someone to approach you outside of your line of sight and disarm you. Even if you have a retention holster, someone with a gun or who claims to have a gun can simply sneak up while you're not looking and whisper in your ear to hand over your weapon. Why take the chance when you can carry concealed?

 

[Support_and_Defend]

While I support the right to open carry, I would never do it myself in an urban setting. It's too easy for someone to approach you outside of your line of sight and disarm you. Even if you have a retention holster, someone with a gun or who claims to have a gun can simply sneak up while you're not looking and whisper in your ear to hand over your weapon. Why take the chance when you can carry concealed?

There are much easier ways for a criminal to obtain a gun than to take one from an armed citizen. If you are carrying concealed, what is more likely to happen is the criminal will sneak up while you're not looking and hit you for your wallet to obtain cash to get a gun the easy way - buy one, or have someone else buy one for them. Gun grabs just simply don't happen in real life more than once every few years. Don't you think if the gun grabs did happen they would be all over the news and the anti-gun groups would be proclaiming them from the rooftops?

According to felons interviewed in prison, more than likely they are going to see an armed citizen and just move on to an easier target.

 

[JayCee]

There are much easier ways for a criminal to obtain a gun than to take one from an armed citizen.

You may be right, but I don't feel like taking the chance.

 

[Jimmy10mm]

I also agree that it is better to keep the element of surprise and cc. I wouldn't feel comfortable oc in a setting outside of a wilderness hunting or hiking situation. I do live in a state where oc is considered reckless display of a firearm and there are criminal statutes against it.