A different case?

D

Drummer101

New member
As of right now I am living on more of a main road than I was last year.

Currently I am a student and to a certain extent this is a college town. Drinking is a big problem. Some people end up going home to the wrong house.

While being on more of a main road that is more of a concern to me...

The people living below me (front door next to mine), said there was banging on the door at 2am from random people.


So here is the question/situation.

If there is a drunk who comes home to the wrong house and gets in the front door what can I do?

I have dealt with all kinds of drunks (angry, funny, friendly, stupid and all between).
But the common factor is that I dont know what they are going to do and neither do they.

Now I am a firm believer of not shooting unless you are in physical danger. But if they do not listen to verbal instructions what can I do? (assuming the police have already been notified)
 
If there is a drunk who comes home to the wrong house and gets in the front door what can I do
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When my little brother did this one night, the folks went into their bedroom and called 911. The police took him into custody and broght him home ALIVE!!

Now if they woulda shot him? Well I would pay them a visit and ask them why did you shoot a drunk kid to death? He was in their kitchen eating a bowl of creal, such a threat..... 3 houses from his home.

Try to look at it from the other guys side of life, have you ever made a mistake? Did you feel you should pay for it with your life?

Keep the door locked.
 
Doors got dead bolt.

I have also met violent drunks, they think your the intruder if they think it is their house.

I have no intentions of shooting (or even showing a firearm) unless I/roommates are in danger.

The thing that was getting me was not listing to verbal instructions.
 
markj said:
Now if they woulda shot him? Well I would pay them a visit and ask them why did you shoot a drunk kid to death?
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That would have been a tragedy, and while I can't speak for the laws in every state, in this state it would have been considered a burglary, a home invasion. I've seen belligerent drunks who thought that they were in the right place and that other folks in the home were there for nefarious purposes.

I hope your brother got the help he needed. If this offense had occurred in this jurisdiction, your brother would have gotten a trip to jail charged with burglary. This set of circumstances isn't real common, but it happens often enough that the offender gets charged with a felony. Too bad, so sad.

But, if you show up at my house wondering why a tragedy occurred, then I'm calling the police and you're going to get a trip to jail for trespassing, disturbing the peace, assault, and anything else I can think of. Don't compound a tragedy by harassing the victim.
 
Yeah, it would be nice to know that that person in your house was just a drunk idiot at the wrong place. But how can you possibly assume that?

Shoot first? Heck no. But I would also first assume that they are there to rob me, not just in the wrong place.
 
First and foremost for me is the safety of my family and myself. If I can get everyone into a safe zone and call 911 then I have no problem waiting for the LEOs to arrive. However, when awakened at night I cannot diagnose a person’s mental condition and if it is being altered by drugs, alcohol or a psychotic episode. If the person acts in a threatening manner than I would defend myself and pray I made the right decision.
 
When my kids were small I kept my guns unloaded. My then wife called to say she was going to be late & to leave the door unlocked for her. The kids & I were asleep, when I heard the front door open. I called her name, but no answer. I can hear someone in the living room. I got up & got my gun out of the dresser, found the mag, still in the dark, loaded it. As I rounded the corner, I see a man's hand & wrist closing the door. It made my heart race a little. I waited up for my wife.
 
There was an incident locally a week or two ago in which a young man celebrating his 21st birthday got thoroughly hammered and started banging on the front door of a house that he thought belonged to a friend. It actually belonged to strangers, though: an elderly fellow and his wife. The old gent retrieved a handgun from his safe and opened the door. The drunk lunged through the door and the old man fired a round into his chest, killing him on the spot.

The usual sequelae: the old fellow is said to be distraught and the drunk, who recently got his GED and was considering moving out of his parents' house, is being memorialized as a swell guy who would never hurt anyone.

So far, the shooting is being considered justified. IMO, drunks are responsible for getting drunk and therefore responsible for their behavior when drunk. And there is no way that we should be required to wait for blood alcohol levels to come back from the lab before we are allowed to defend ourselves.

But did the old gent in this case need to defend himself? He was behind a locked door. A much better solution is to call 911 and report that someone is attempting entry into an occupied home. If the door is breached, defend yourself; if it holds up long enough for LEOs to arrive, much better for everyone to let them handle it. I see no reason to open the door to such a situation and put yourself in a situation in which your need to defend yourself becomes more likely.

Just my take. I'd rather spend money on new carpentry and paint on the door than on a lawyer and counseling.
 
drunks are responsible for getting drunk and therefore responsible for their behavior when drunk
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Exactly, along with freedom comes responsibility for our actions. I agree the gentleman should not have opened the door, but at the end of the day he was in his own home and in fear for his safety.
 
BAC (or BAL) does not excuse you from ANY actions you may take (or not take... the ones who don't buckle up when drunk... you know who I mean) so being drunk doesn't change the fact that it is a home invasion.
That said, Verbal commands, turning on the lights (alcohol plays he** on the eyes' ability to adjust to light and dark), and forceful shouting often work long before you have to draw a weapon.
Just like the drunk, a shooter is responsible for his acitons. Going to court, and having a series of things that you did before you were "forced" to shoot, will greatly strengthen your case.
In the USMC, we call the "continuum of force," or "escalation of force." Violating it results in court martial (a felony) convictions.
 
I hope your brother got the help he needed.
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He was a kid, 14 or 15, cops brought him 3 houses up to pur place. I knew them neighbors, I cut their lawn so it wouldnt be tresspassing if Iwent over there and asked them a question. No bad intentions we were neighbors and a tight block with parties every year. Sure they coulda took him to jail but he was a juvie and there were no juvie halls then sooo cops did what they felt was right.

My point is dont just get a gun and shoot, even if you are justified it may not be the best action at that time.

Now if someone just up and shot someone was related? My cousins are cops, they will take care of it in a legal manner. We dont do vigilanty in my family, we respect the law and the guys that enforce it.

I was a bouncer in some very bad bars here, I delt with many drunks nightly. Never had to harm a single one.

I am just saying make sure before you lite the guy up is all.
 
Now I am a firm believer of not shooting unless you are in physical danger. But ....
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The obscene 'But'. If you really do not believe in shooting unless you are in physical danger then you won't.

How does the drunk get into your locked unit unless you let him in ?

But if they do not listen to verbal instructions what can I do?
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Do you really think people have to listen to your instructions/commands ? Are you uniformed LEO, military ? Hmmmm people often do not follow their commanders commands. Why do you think people must follow yours. If they don't, you would like to be free to shoot them ?

I think you are looking for something. Good luck.
 
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An acquaintance got drunk and when he got to 'his' apartment door (he was one floor off) he preceded to try his key in 'his' locked door. Key didn't work so he kicked in the door. He then saw an 'intruder' in 'his' kitchen (actual apartment resident) and attacked him. Fortunately when he had the 'intruder' in a choke hold he passed out. The resident was able get loose andcalled the cops. I think in this case had the resident been armed this would have differently and I think it would have been a justified shooting. Point being drunk kids make mistakes, but don't blame the real victim Joe Homeowner for defending himself. Fortunately the guy I know woke up in jail, but it could have ended much worse.
 
And thus another reason I follow a certain set of rules...

1. Don't get so intoxicated that I can't recognize my own home. A light buzz is plenty enough to have a nice evening with friends.

2. Sleep where I drink. If I'm at a friend's house, I stay there. Most of my alcohol consumption takes place within my own home.

3. Always have a DG (designated guardian) that stays sober and keeps an eye one everyone's behavior....

As far as shoot/no shoot: No one will get into my home without some serious work on their part. If they do gain entry, they'll be blinded by 400 lumens of LED "firepower" and bluntly told that I am armed and they need to vacate the premises and cops are on the way. If they don't leave, and advance towards the hallway with my and my children's rooms, they will be shot.

My duty to protect my family supersedes any "obligation" to ascertain Joe Schmoe's level of inebriation or mental state. He's there illegally, he's been told that I am armed, cops are on the way, he must leave. He advances on me and my family... This is the reason Castle Laws exist.
 
What about the lost, drunk kids?

When my little brother did this one night, the folks went into their bedroom and called 911. The police took him into custody and broght him home ALIVE!!

Now if they woulda shot him? Well I would pay them a visit and ask them why did you shoot a drunk kid to death? He was in their kitchen eating a bowl of creal, such a threat..... 3 houses from his home.
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Q:What about the lost drunk kids?

A: Don't be one. Don't let your kids be one.
 
jgcoastie,

Excellent post! It's worth another read, especially this part:

jgcoastie said:
My duty to protect my family supersedes any "obligation" to ascertain Joe Schmoe's level of inebriation or mental state. He's there illegally, he's been told that I am armed, cops are on the way, he must leave. He advances on me and my family... This is the reason Castle Laws exist.
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If you start by making sure your home is secure from casual wanderers, and have a plan to deal with the more determined types, that's all you can really do.

pax
 
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