A couple newbie shotgun questions...

I

Ices

Inactive
Hello, I'm looking to buy a shotgun in the near future, and I had a couple questions I hope that a few could quickly answer:

-Why do many people alternate between buckshot and slugs in home defense shotguns? I imagine that it would be hard to plan for such an event, and I'd hate to be caught in a high stress situation at a close distance with a slug rather than buckshot.

-How do you "practice" with a short barrel shotgun? I know that short barrels are mediocre in trap and skeet, so how does one prepare at a strict(er) range with a short barrel shotgun?

I was hoping to buy a shotgun, but ranges around me will only allow slugs. In the case of helping me sleep a little better at night, if I can get more practice with a rifle and be more comfortable with it, then I will go with one with HD in mind. Thanks for any replies!
 
Your right, it is impossible to know exactly what situation you might have you use your shotgun in. That is exactly why many people alternate between slugs and shot. Fact is, shotgun shot doesn't spread out as much as most people give it credit for. I think the number is something like and inch per yard traveled (depends on choke, of course) but in most home defense situations, that isn't a very big spread. Aiming is still very important. At longer ranges, however, no matter how hard you aim, the shot is still going to be spreading out at that 1" per yrd. That is where it might be beneficial to have some slugs on board.

I, personally, just load my HD scattergun with buckshot and no slugs because of penetration concerns, but I do have slugs on tap in a sidesaddle.

As for the other one, I don't know. I am lucky enough to have a range with a home defense shotgun range, so I just practice there.
 
1/ YOu use slugs of course to get more range- with practice, and depending on your action type, you can do a load change very quickly- and more quickly with a pump still. I carry a few slugs on my stock cuff, and you can practice your change son the rnage. Good fun, too.

2/To practice- well, if you take HD seriously, you should look at doing a decent defensive shotgun course- Gunsite for exaample. NOt only will you learn some good tactics, but you will see various drills you can do, both live and dry to practice. Once you have these, you can practice on a suitable range, or with your mates. There are also several excellent books on defensive shotgun use. PM me if you want some recommendations.

Its bizarre that your range will only allow slugs. Purists might shreik but I thnk you can practice with slugs in the same way as buck.
 
Ices -

I bought my first HD shotgun a few months ago and ran into the same thing (I have a Win 1300 Defender, 18") - local ranges would only allow slugs. So I did a lot of target shooting with Rem Managed Recoil slugs - very inexpensive, pretty much painless to shoot, and lots of fun. I can shoot those all day long.

That will help a lot with handling, loading, un-loading and just getting the feel for your gun.

I also nosed around and found a gun club that is a little more open minded and joined it, so I can shoot shotshells for practise and patterning. And I discovered that this gun isn't too bad at skeet after all. I don't even get as many funny looks as I expected. I am also shopping for a Wingmaster, though...

My 2c: go for the shotgun.
 
I Would Load With Buckshot For Hd. At My Local Range In Washington State It Has Large Plywood Targets Set Out To Check Your Shot Pattern At Different Distances. Since You Cant Do That At Your Range Maby Take Some Sheets Of Cardboard Or Scrap Plywood And Go Up In The Woods To Shoot. Have A Good Time. :)
 
My range only allows slugs. I cant fully understand why. I went and asked one time the clerk told me. "their would be no target left!". Again, some bad advice from a so-called expert. Buckshot at short distances will only have a 2" or 3" spread. at 25 to 35 yards how would you "not have any target paper left"? I think its BS by some professional wannabe's. buckshot has less penetration so it doesnt tear up range walls like that nasty 7.62x39mm stuff:)
 
Slugs are overpenetrative in most HD situations. Alternating them with buck isn't a solution to any situation I can imagine in the real world.

MIx loading buck and slugs is done by some park rangers dealing with "Nuisance" bears. Otherwise, I know of no "Serious" use.

The HD 870s here are stuffed with 00. But, there's two slugs in the S/S on one and others near.

Best to measure the longest possible shot opp in your home, add a yard for GPs and pattern buck loads until you find one with a palm sized pattern at that range. Then learn to place that pattern where it is needed, fast and under stressful conditions.

Then, since every HD shotgun is also A Community Defense tool if it hits the fan, check the pattern of your buck loads at 25 yards and find a slug your shotgun "Likes".

Doing the above will do more to positively affect your life expectancy than all the bellsandwhistles.

HTH.....
 
Thanks for the great replies everyone! How is the recoil difference between a slug and 00? If they are similar, then a slug would require slightly better shot placement, so wouldn't learning to aim with a slug be more beneficial?

DaveMcC, I actually moved from Columbia to Elkridge a few years ago. The range I'm talking about is the Hap Baker landfill. Where do you shoot? I'm in college, and very new to shooting, so anything you can tell me about this area would be VERY helpful.
 
#1 Concern , Environment

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A) CITY APARTMENT B) RURAL HOUSING C) COUNTRY / FARM
#2) LOOKING FOR "QUICK ANSWERS" TO A MOST SERIOUS QUESTION THAT CAN RUIN YOUR LIFE IN A SPLIT SECOND (wrongfull shooting) ALSO IS BOTHERSOME..
#3) TO ANSWER YOUR MAIN QUESTION..ONE OF THE MOST READ GUN EXPERTS IN HISTORY WROTE THE WORDS .."BROWNING AUTO-5 , CUT DOWN TO LEGAL 18" INCH BARREL & "DUCKBILLED".,,THE TERM "DUCKBILLED" MEANS THE BARREL IS HEATED WITH A TORCH & LIGHTLY TAPPED WITH A HAMMER ON AN ANVIL CREATING AN OVAL SHAPE, SIDE TO SIDE..THE IDEA IS TO SPREAD THE SHOT LEFT TO RIGHT..NOT FROM THE CEILING TO THE FLOOR SINCE MOST "GOBLINS" PREFER TO REMAIN CLOSER TO THE FLOOR WHEN "CREEPING" IN UNFAMILIER SURROUNDINGS DOING ILLEGAL STUFF IN THE DARK YOU DONT NEED "BUCKSHOT" IN THE CEILING.. READ
MASADD AYOOBS " IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME" FOR STARTERS
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I'm not trying to take over this thread or anything but I also have a couple of quick beginner questions and don't want to start a new thread.

I'm interested in the Remington 870 Express in 20 gauge for mostly upland game and getting into trap shooting at the local range. For upland it seems like a 20 ga is better and for trap, a 12 ga. I'm left handed and they only make a left handed 870 express in 12 ga.

Is it worth having the shells flying across my face to have the 20 ga or should I just get the 12? Is 20 ga adequate for trap? Is there much of a difference between a 26" and 28" barrel?

Thanks and sorry if that was more than a couple of questions.
 
Ices, I usually shoot at Prince George's County Trap and Skeet Center near Riverdale. It's on Good Luck Road, 1/4 mile off 193. I can be found there most Fridays, but not this one.

If you want, I can run you through the live version of Shotgun 101. On occasion, I'm off Saturdays like normal folks.

Anyone trying to get better with a shotgun for any purpose, including defense, can benefit from shooting clays,especially doubles. It's fun, one shoots plenty, and loudly destroying 4" discs moving at up to 85 MPH on varying vectors really gets one up the learning curve PDQ. 4" is about the width of the CNS.

Damageinc, a 20 gauge is not the best tool for trap IF you're trying to get into the Trap Hall Of Fame. It's perfect if you're trying to have fun and get better with a shotgun.

20 gauges kick no less than 12s do. Lighter load, but oft lighter gun. Some 20s I've shot were vicious kickers with oz loads and still emphatic with the typical 7/8 oz loads.

Southpaws have little trouble using RH 870s, IME.

Trap guns tend to have long barrels. Partly this is because it moves some weight out further and helps keep the swing swinging.

HTH both of you....
 
I use my 12 ga 870 Express 28" for dove, quail, and skeet (in addition to my Beretta 686 O/U 12 ga). But after a long, hot afternoon shooting dove or skeet, the 12 ga can start to wear on the shoulder. That's why I am looking at getting a semi-auto this summer, as the semi's tend to be a little for forgiving with the kick. My choice will most likely be the Beretta Extrema 12 ga. Don't get me wrong though. The 870 was the best $200 I spent and it's a shotgun I plan on having for a very long time.
 
Thanks Dave and gunslinger. One of the reasons I was leaning on a 20 ga is I want alot of trigger time and it wouldn't be as bad to shoot after a while as opposed to a 12. I have never fired a shotgun though so if the kick about the same I might as well get the left handed 12.

Another thing was the price of shells. I figured 20 ga shells would be cheaper than 12 so I could get more time on the range or in the field. But after looking at midwayusa and cabela's, the price isn't much different. Are 12 and 20 ga shells normally priced the same? How do you feel about that Sellier & Bellot? It seems reasonably priced for just target shooting.
Thanks again.
 
Damage,

I use Winchester Super X for dove and quail. Go with "low brass" loads. My experience in the field is that the "high brass" loads do a number on your shoulder. My local WalMart and Academy sell a box of 25 shells for about $3.49 year round. During the fall, they usually drop the price to $2.99.

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/shotdetail.aspx?symbol=XU12SP7&bn=1&use=6

I typically use Winchester AA for target loads. These shells usually run a little more in price. But quite honestly, I had an extra case of the Super X loads from dove season this past fall, and I've been using those for skeet. They work just fine.

http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/shotdetail.aspx?symbol=AAHA127&bn=6&use=10

Hope this helps.
 
Why do many people alternate between buckshot and slugs in home defense shotguns?
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Because many people have no idea how to properly employ the shotgun. If they did they would know better than to do that.
How do you "practice" with a short barrel shotgun?
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The same as you would any other gun. You take it to the range and hopefully get some training from somebody that knows what they are doing (not that common with the shotgun, BTW). You need to pattern your gun and find the load(s) it prefers. Then you can practice the drills that will let you learn how to swap shells, select firing points, properly mount the gun, etc.
 
damage inc-a newbie question from you will be as informative to me as it will be to you! Ask away!

Dave McC-I will definately take you up on your offer. I sometimes go back to Howard County for the weekends, so I can easily match my schedule to your's. I want to FEEL and learn the shotgun (Dicks' Sporting Goods doesn't count) before I attempt to shoot it. Whatever/wherever works best for you works best for me. I didn't know there was a trap/skeet range so close to my campus, it's almost refreshing. PM me with any details.

For everyone else, thanks a lot. I think shooting trap will be my new practice, when/if I get my own shotgun. Are the short barrel synthetics typical of home defense adequate for shooting trap? Would getting a second barrel be in my best interests?
 
I have been looking into purchasing a mossberg 500 locally. I have come across a few, but have yet to find one that has everything that I want, which is:
-"Evil black" synthetic, the ribbed fore-end feels nicer to me
-6+ magazine capacity. I don't know, 5 just doesn't seem like enough to me, so I came up with the number 6+. Opinions on this?
-Combo barrels, one 18 1/2"-20" (HD) and one 24"-28" (Trap)

but so far, all I have come up with is...
-Wood stock with combo barrels 5+1 ($280)
-Persuader synethetic with 20" barrel 7+1 ($290)

I really wish I could get these combined into one ultimate combo package. Should I do away with the wood stock and combo barrels, or the synthetic and extra magazine capacity? Also, is there a noticable difference between 18 1/2" and 20"?
 
What about Guage Mates? Do any of you use them or have any experience with them? How do they work? I think this might solve my problem of Remington not making a left handed 870 in 20 ga. I could just convert it from 12 to 20, and then take out the gauge mate and have a 12 again. What do you guys think?
 
A couple things....

First, PGC has a silly rule about a minimum barrel length of 23". They SAY it's because of noise but since they do not ban ported barrels that's just Caca Del Toro.

The various combos are good deals. The combo I like is a 28" barrel and a 20" one with open sights.

I see little difference between 18.5" and 20". I've one of each on my two "Serious" 870s. The longer one may have a bit less blast and flash in low light.

Few civilians using shotguns for defense use more than two rounds. Usually it's one shot, one perp neutralized. A 4+1 pump's fine as is.

Damage, they're for break action guns, not repeaters.

HTH.....
 
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