...a .38 special. "Don´t be a fool..."

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Tarcante

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It was a Friday night... 10:45 , I had just finished my practice in the range - and the guy next to me - early 50s, suit and tie, business type -, said:

"I heard you are planning to get a revolver."
Yes, maybe one of those compact revolvers... maybe a .38 special. I said.

He shook his head in disbelief.

"Don´t be a fool... honestly" he said. While we were in the
elevator, on our way back to the parking lot, he said:

"A 2 in barrel .38 revolver will never penetrate the 12 inches the FBI requires. Never."

The elevator doors were just opening and he said: "The compact 2 in barrel revolver is just a marketing gimmick from the gun manufactures."

We were just reaching the point in which I had to turn to my right, to get to my pick up truck and he said:

"Just think about it, use simple logic. If a 2 in. .38 can reach the 12 inches the FBI requires, a 4 in. barrel .38 caliber revolver will over penetrate the human torso. Have you ever seen that? A .38 over penetrating a torso? he asked me.

But I didn´t answer. I was just listening. Then he said:

"The human torso is just not muscle and fat, 80 % is covered by hard bone. All those YouTube videos, where they shoot a .38 into ballistic gel - everything is just pure smoke and mirrors -, because they are missing the whole human skeleton !"

Ok, I have to go... is late - he said.

Goodnight, I said.

I ended my day sitting inside my pick up truck - in the dark ., thinking about everything he had just said to me.

Any thoughts?
 
Push in the clutch and disengage from further conversation on the topic with the gentleman or anyone else with this line of 'education'.

Whether or not a snub .38 is the best tool for the job is always going to be a debate. It is up to the individual to make that decision based on sound knowledge, understanding of the trade offs (weight, size, round count, concealability, etc) between the various pistol/revolver platforms and calibers, then training to become confident and effective in using the one chosen.

As a side note, if these shooting range professors pester you on this topic, simply ask them if they will let you test a puny snub .38 on their dog. That question typically stops the conversation.:eek:
 
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"I ended my day sitting inside my pick up truck - in the dark ., thinking about everything he had just said to me.

Any thoughts?"

Here's a thought, don't be a fool who thinks about what that guy said.
 
He probably believes in the "knock down power" myth too. Thinks a 45 cap will "knock a man down even if you just hit him in the finger" I actually heard that BS line by a gun counter clerk at BPS.:eek:
 
Thiat kind sounds like an utter tool. :mad:

The best performing .38 special +P snub ammo does nearly as well as anything else. Take what the guy said and box it up, take it to the dock, and put it on a slow boat to China. :cool:

My $0.02.
 
Guess I'm a fool. That, or I'm just not FBI material.

I don't carry a gun to look for bad guys and be a law enforcment officer. I carry a gun to protect myself from them.
 
There have been a lot of folks over many years experiencing very bad days from being hit by a .38 Special. It must of been their weak external body skeletal features.
 
I like having gun related discussions also. I would much, MUCH rather have a friendly and good spirited debate with another gun guy or shooter than I would to have a religious or political debate with some random person.

The way you forwarded this conversation, it sounds like it was a friendly chat and the way I read it, he wasn't Johnny Tactical like some of the complete nutbars you see at a cheap local gun show. :eek:

I believe he's completely wrong and it sounds like he's deeply entrenched in his opinion, but I don't mind having conversations with friendly folks about guns and shooting even if we don't agree. I think it's far better than talking about football or the President or the weather. :p And when it sounds like something that's awfully hard to believe but you haven't researched it yourself, it's fine form to listen, nod, agree to consider what you're hearing and then investigate later. I don't need any manner of satisfaction in telling a gentleman like that how WRONG he is. Frankly, I'm no expert on human wounds and external ballistics. It seems as though he believes he's got it figured out, and that's fine also.
 
Ballistic gel is not meant to be demonstrate what a bullet will do when it hits flesh, but rather to be a consistant medium to test and compare bullets....
 
There is some basis for the idea...

The .38 Special is seemingly obsolete. The revolvers only hold six rounds, (or five in the small ones), they cannot be loaded as fast as an autoloader. They aren't as sexy as a sixteen or seventeen shooter, and one cannot miss nearly as fast in an extended session. Back in the more primitive days of ammunition knowledge, the four inch .38 Special revolver loaded with 158 grain round nosed lead (RNL) bullets loaded to a whopping 750 f/s or so made a name for themselves as poor performers.

However. Some of the 'poor performance' may have been exacerbated by the somewhat poor training of the ordinary LEO of the time. The reality is, the 'failures to stop' encounters were of a smaller percentage than the 'successfully stopped' encounters. Then - as now - shot placement had a serious input as to whether the encounter was 'good' or 'bad'.

Ammunition is a bit more sophisticated - meaning better designed - than it used to be. Simply changing the bullet shape from RNL to semi-wadcutter (SWC) or wad cutter (WC) makes for better energy transfer and a greater wounding potential. Not only that, but powder technology now has gunpowders that will provide greater velocities with the same maximum pressure than used to be.

Here's another thing the gentleman doesn't understand. A two inch barrel revolver does not get half the velocity and kinetic energy of a four inch barrel revolver. In fact, with some loadings, the increase from two to four inches can be rather disappointing. Or, looking at the other way, the loss of velocity from four to two inches can be rather little. So, based on what the gentleman said, I think he's a bit lost in his understanding.

I've got a pair of Smith & Wesson .38 Special Hand Ejectors (pre-model number manufacture). I load a standard pressure loading using a slow powder which pushes a 157 grain full wadcutter at something in the 800 f/s range. The rounds shoot to the sights and is quite comfortable to shoot. When I'm paying attention to matter, I can clear five bowling pins with five shots.

Oh. A well made, gripped and loaded .38 Special really lends itself to accurate shooting. Now we're back to 'properly placed shots', so I'll quit.
 
He doesn't know doodle-squat.
Real life experience.
My daughter had to intervene in a bad guys plan to eliminate her and her co-workers as witnesses to the armed robbery he was committing .
A single round of 38 special, center chest , didn't stop until it hit his spine.
He fell backwards, dropped the cash box and his 9mm semi-auto.
I think the 38 special did fine, got one in pocket right now.

My grandfather told me " Boy, it's not what you shoot, the secrete is in placing the bullet in the right spot. Only hits count, misses get you killed."

After that "incident" my daughter hugged me and thanked me for teaching her to shoot from a young age. She said that it "saved her life and her 3 friends lives that night."
All done with the " old obsolete" 38 special in a 2 inch J-frame S&W!

Gary
 
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