A 1849 Pocket: real case colors? Or reblued?

Cold bluing tends to leave a distinctive smell on firearms that it has been used on. It also doesn't last very long before it wears bright again (guns being used/carried, obviously).
Of course lots of things can have happened to it since it left Julia's possession. We note that the action screws had shiny areas in Julia's photograph, and now they do not. They also looked flatter on the heads
 
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I have a hard time believing those pictures are of the same gun, though I will accept the OP's word. The Julia pics show a lot of remaining CCH and more silver than the recent pics seem to, and much sharper corners. That might all be due to different conditions of photography, but to me it only increases the questions rather than answering them. (And may well show the futility of trying to make assessments from photographs.)

Jim
 
The four digits on the cylinder of the Julia gun match the last four of the serial number on the Guns International so it is the same one.
 
Jim, I agree with you. Camera and lighting? I am certain that the pistol definitely looks polished. That is what makes it odd, polished rich grey colors. I have looked at over one hundred photos and have not found this to be true for other 1849 Pockets, not quite like this. Unnatural.

Bob
 
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I have antiqued some Pietta revolvers to get that old look using a browning solution followed by boiling water rinse and then buffing. It produces the same look that the frame on this revolver has, a patina blue.

It is of course up to you but I would be very cautious.
 
OK. The general concensus is that it has been cold blued. I respect everyones opinion here. But my curiosity gets the best of me sometimes. For the price of only shipping costs, I think I have something to learn here. Please bear with me now.

So I had the seller ship it to me with a several day return policy. I have already purchased an expensive Baby Dragoon from him that has turned out very well, as verified by an old time collector. I think he will honor the mutually agreed upon return policy on his allegedly 100% authentic 1849 Pocket. This pistol has been examined by an antique firearms specialist at a recent auction, where the seller purchased it.

I have examined it carefully. It is mechanically and physically 100%. This is the best preserved pistol that I have seen. I had wondered why it was shiny in the pictures. Polishing? However, this is because there is a very thin layer of grease all over it as a preservative. Incredible. There is an actual mustard patina on the straps. The cylinder scene is at least 95% there. The case colors are there. The finish is mostly shades of gray. The recoil shield has a metallic silver. I do not think this pistol has ever been fired.

I examined the markings, which are the SNs and address stamp, and all look great and very well defined. There is no indication of a (re)bluing that possibly has taken place, as far as I can tell at this point. I have seen what a rebluing can do to these types of markings. I smelled the finish and breech end of the cylinder closely and just smelled nothing but perhaps a bit of grease. Nothing is definitive here. There is a type of yellow-reddish-brown patina on the cylinder. Perhaps a glaze from dried grease? But the grease is probably synthetic. There are also no scratches or damage that I can see.

I will arrrange time with that antique collector, who is also a dealer, for an assessment of this pistol. He will be available Tuesday. Is there any way I can further examine this pistol to detect a rebluing, or specifically, a cold bluing? I guess I can clean off all of the surface grease to see how it looks and if it starts smelling of sulfur. I think that is what I may do next. Ballistol? Mineral spirits? CLP? And a wipe down with terry cloth?

Bob
 
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Your gun looks to be the same as the one at the auction to me.
pocket.jpg

Can you take it outside in the sunlight and take a better picture of it?
 
Here are a few. Note the uneven look of the bluing. A sign of a cold bluing. Correct? Part of it may be Ballistol. Once I wipe the Ballistol, there is not any obnoxious odor like sulfur. The last two photos are in sunlight. I have now wiped it down and added a coating of grease back onto the finish.









Bob
 
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I don't anything about them. Looks just like the one in the auction.

That being said - to me it looks like a Pietta that has been defarbed / refinished and aged to look old. Lots of fakes out there.

Can you tell us how $ you have on the line?
 
I am beginning to believe that it has been reblued, now that I hace seen it. I think I may return it. But I will show it to a gunsmith of antique firearms first. I have an appointment made with one tomorrow. There is a several day return policy. I have $2500 riding on it. A bit much, but if that finish was all original, it would be worth it.

What perplexes me is that all of the markings, including the cylinder scene and barrel address stamp and SNs, are very sharp. Also it does not smell like it has been cold reblued. But that finish looks very unnatural to me, IMO supporting the thoughts of others on this matter. If this turns out to be the case, I will have learned allot from this little adventure of mine.

Bob
 
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I have taken it to a gunsmith who has hot and cold blued firearms. He tells me that it is very likely nothing was done to it. The telltale signs are not there. So I will next go to the antique dealer for an evaluation. He should know what the finish of this antique should look like.

Bob
 
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Alright now. It has not been reblued, including cold blued. I think it was the grease on the finish, and the lighting, that made it look that way. My antique firearm dealer was syrprised at its unusually fine condition. I did clean it up with mineral spirits and rubbing with a cloth. From what I understand about cold bluing, this would of removed the parts that were cold blued. So that also may help explain the look it had in photos. This finish is now pristine if it were not for the the original bluing not being completely there..

Bob

PS This ends my triple post. ;)
 
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I have greased the mechanics. I have also applied renaissance wax to both the finish and the grips. If there was little remaining finish, I would of left a thin layer of synthetic grease on the finish, but that is not the case.

Bob

PS I will take additional photos to post here. Perhaps after my cleaning the finish has changed?

 
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The truth has been found out

Ever since discussing this with all of you, I have had a suspicion concerning this 1849 Pocket that I had purchased. I was not convinced that all of the bluing was geniune. But if not, I have found it to be well done. Also the case colors are intact. The two gunsmiths I had taken it to were impressed, but not knowing what the bluing on antique Colts is suppose to look like, they thought the bluing was original. So I then assumed all was fine with my purchase.

I decided to use a UV flashlight for nothing better to do but shine it on the bluing of my percussion Colts. This is not scientific, but I found the UV light to do a good job in allowing me to see the coverage of the original bluing. The UV light really brought the bluing up quite nicely. There is a good amount on the top of the barrel, but it becomes more sparse on the sides, particularly where the lugs are. I then looked at the barrel under normal light. A type of bluing was still there that almost covered up all the sparse original bluing. So the gun has indeed been touched up, like many others have said in this thread.

Bob

PS After studying many pictures of authentic antique Colt bluing, I now have a better idea of what to look for. I am finding that it is not too uncommon to find reblued antique Colts. Most are of a poor quality.
 
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