9x19 balls vs. 45acp ball: part 2

random:

You post; "The bottom line is that the 9mm will pentetrate further and through a lot more than the .45 will."

Unless it hits bone...most center mass has much bone and ribs. I'm not sure it will in fact penetrate a human torso deeper. I am skeptical

"body armor or in a vehicle you need a 9mm."

A 9mm will NOT penetrate body armor. It is one of the most common calibers out there and if it could defeat aromor what would be the point of wearing it?
 
"I may not have the imediate knock down but will kill in more cases than the .45 will."

So, the 45 has more stopping power? Yep. I agree.

I'm going to agree with Dr45 here when he said in an earlier post that it's the size that matters when handgun bullets are concerned. Punching a bigger hole does more damage. Much of the 9mm's energy is transferred through harmless displacement of flesh which quickly jumps back into place. The size of the hole is always going to be smaller than a 45 bullet of comparable construction. You only get the 'hydrostatic' effect when the velocity approaches that of rifle bullets in which case this displacement takes place at such a high velocity as to shatter capilaries and cause massive widespread bleading.

In the end, as long as the bullet will penetrate to and through vital organs, bigger is better. Has anybody ever heard of any full-power 45 load failing to penetrate to vital organs in a human torso shot?
 
ha ha ha ha

It really ain't hard to understand.

Drop a brick from head high onto your bare left foot.
Now drop two at the same time onto your bare right foot from waist high.

The increase in height for the 9mm ( one brick) represent the increase in velocity due to increased distance " increased acceleration".

Ok now.

Your left foot will be hurting maybe even busted up a little.

Your right foot will be busted up and maybe a little flatter too.

It don't get no simpler than that!

Just imagine what .45 acp ball would do if loaded to 9mm ball velocities.

At the same time imagine how effective 9mm ball would be if loaded to .45acp ball standard velocities.

nuff said !!!!
 
If it's all about size, then the .357 and 9mm should be on par. Is there a difference in "stopping power" between a 9mm+P 124gr and a .357 125gr? If so, it must be a function of the velocity since the diameter and mass of the projectiles are very close. If that is indeed the case, then it weakens the argument that size is the all important factor.
 
.357 Magnum Round Nosed ammo would be slightly more effective than 9mm +P. Of course, we weren't talking about 45 Ball versus .357 Magnum Hollow point. The 357 Magnum is very effective because it expands. A round nosed bullet would just punch holes. A properly designed expanding 45 bullet will punch a bigger hole and be more effective than the .357. Also understand that the .357 is overwhelmingly chambered for revolvers which are more accurate by nature. A good portion of the effectiveness of the .357 (which most agree to be superior to either the 45 or 9mm) derives from its accuracy. The extra 50% of energy helps too.

A 45 or 9mm bullet must be semi-round nosed in order to properly feed in a semi-auto. That dictates the shape of the bullet rather than terminal ballistics.
 
yeah that is it

Halo,
You did get what I was trying to say.
It is the velocity that makes the 9mm perform.
With out the high velocities it would be much less effective. In other words a wimp. Couldn't resist.

Just so you know, I like 9mm too.

I was trying to compare oranges to oranges. I know that is tough to do.
I was saying load the 2 x's heavier 45 ball to the same velocities( if that was possible) then the 9mm would be left in the dust. In this comparison the realativly small frontal area of the 9mm allows it to poke right on through.
The significantly large frontal area of the 45 transfers more energy upon contact and while passing through.
This is why I beleive bigger is better.
I am no physicist but it sure does make sense to me.
Either way you can end up just as bad off.

That is the whole idea behind hollow points. They are designed dump as much energy as possible inside the body. Larger size and more mass == more energy dump.

Have you ever seen a deer shot with a .243. I have seen several. Even with a straight on center chest shot, they don't seem to react other than turn and run. I have personally made this type of shot with a 110 gr .243. That is exactly why I now kill my deer with my 165gr 30-06. I have dropped several in their tracks with this same type of shot placement. The one that didn't fall on the spot turned around ran about 15 feet. I killed a really nice 8 pointer at approx. 15 yards with a 230 hydra shok from my SS Colt Govmint. I hit him just behind the left shoulder. The shot nearly knocked him down. He looked up at me. He took three steps and fell on his face dead. My hunting buddy uses his ss Python loaded with Rem 158 grain HP's. I can tell you those things are a handful to shoot. He made a similar shot on a deer. We followed the blood trail for almost a half
mile. It was just as when we found it as mine. Both bullets passed through, his and mine. Mine hit a rib on the way in. His shot went between. We found my bullet under the far side skin. His 357 bullet didn't appear to have expanded,nearly the same size hole on both sides.

He said judging by the bucks reaction at the shot, he thought he must have missed. He looked for the blood and hair before coming over to get me. This big buck never even flinched. This was a solid hit with a heavy .357 magnum round. My 230 hydra shok damn near knocked my 8 pointer down. They were both killed at nearly identical distances.

This is my first deer with my 45. " only at close range I know"
\
This may or may not reinforce my argument. A deer is a wild animal. No reasoning, he just want to get away when he is shot. This big ole boy couldn't go no where.
I beleive all things being equal bigger bullets are better. They only improve with speed.
Sorry for the windy post.

I still thinks my bricks analogy makes it easy to understand!
 
.44 Special versus .357 Magnum

Back before the days of the 125 JHP, many knowledgable peace officers (and a lot of these peace officers could be classfied as "gunfighters" having "seen the elephant" more once--it was different time and a different place) opted for the .44 Special/.45 Colt over the .357 Magnum. The late Skeeter Skelton, and unabashed fan of the .357 and the Model 27, was prone to carry a .44 Special (even after the .44 Magnum was available) over the .357 Magnum. When he switched to a job that required concealed carry in opted for the 1911 because it is easier to carry concealed.
 
I love to argue, don't you?

Everybody has there favorite cartridge and gun(s).

I pray I never have to shoot some scun bag, bad guy.
Never the less if it has to be done I will. No if no ands and certainly no buts.
Personally I would prefer to make as big a holes as possible if it comes down to it.

If my Mossberg isn't handy, I have faith my .45 will serve me well. Hell, for that matter any of my 9's will work too.

Ford, Chevy : 9mm, .45 ACP ain't life full of fun ?
 
same data, but still good reading

Can you sum up the article?


Again, both a 9mm and a .45 are both relatively small pieces of lead relative to a speeding car. The recoil is small in both relative to a TC Contender in .308 without a muzzle break. The difference between the two? The devil is in the details.
 
LOL .... :)


As I said in the first reply to this thread: it would be helpful if everyone read the thread that I linked, so that we all know what we are discussing.

Anyway, follow the link in the SECOND post (first reply) to this thread, that I posted, and read the linked thread. In there, you will find a nice detailed layout of the article from Gun World magazine about FMJ ammo (and 9mm vs .45).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top