9mm subcompact felt recoil

Just an FYI for people, you can plug numbers into the link below to calculate recoil force. The only 'variable' is the value for gas speed, which for handguns is usually 1.5, the same that SAAMI uses, at the second link.

http://kwk.us/recoil.html This uses the default value of 1.5 for gas speed, but can be changed.

SAAMI: https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Gun-Recoil-Formulae-2018-07-9-1.pdf

Still don't know how Carl got his numbers. What value did you use for gas speed?

Edited to say: I used a standard value for 115 grain bullet from a 4" barrel. However, since these are guns with shorter barrels, the velocity will be lower, and won't be the same for all guns. The proper method is to shoot and chronograph each gun and see what the actual speed will be, then use that in the recoil calculation.
 
I don't mind the Kahr PM9 recoil impulse at all. The PF9 is stout for a little guy...but then it is the smallest and lightest, and I still shoot it well.
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The Kahr PM9 looks to be smaller than the Keltec PF9 according to this comparison:
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I own or have shot the EC9S, SECURITY 9, P365, SHIELD AND PPS M2. The Walther is by far the softest recoil of that bunch. Shooting my PPS M2 is almost like shooting a 22.
 
Have you handled and shot the G26? I find it very easy to conceal and it seems to shoot like a larger gun. I realize it may be a little thicker than some of the others, but if you like the size it may be one to consider. Also, it has a variety of magazine options, 10, 12, 15, 17, 33.
 
For me my Walther PPS has been the most pleasurable pistol to shoot among the sub and micro compacts. It is a little on the heavier side due to its internal steel frame but that also probably helps it be a softer shooter and extremely accurate for its size. I have read many comments about shooting the PPS that mirror my experience. Of course how a well a pistol grip fits and individuals hand can have a major bearing on perceived recoil.

As always the only way to tell what works best for one is to try out whatever pistols one is considering as perceived recoil can vary greatly among different shooters.
 
My Sig 938 is snappy, and the really rough textured grips don't help a lot. I don't use it for long range sessions but always run a few magazines through it to stay proficient.

It'll hit what I aim at though, as long as I force myself to suck it up and maintain that proficiency.
 
For 9mm subcompacts, I have shot a G26, Shield, Kahr CM9, and a Taurus G2S.

I have size small hands.

Of these guns, the Kahr had the worst recoil. I sold the gun because my knuckles would smack into the trigger guard when I fired it.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
From all the post I would say the numbers are about right, however it is important to find the right fit for your individual self. I am fortunate to be able to shoot different guns at my club. Take the time, shoot as many as you can, Then narrow down what you like and shoot them side by side.
One shoe does not fit all. I found a few guns for my EDC that fit my hand perfectly. Recoil is mild and I look forward to every range session. And I will not give them up for another model. Way too many rounds down range to switch now and the new guns I tried just do not cut it for me. Lol, I have found peace. Hopefully all posters have found the gun that is just right for them. Kind of like finding a Great Hunting dog. You and him just mesh together as one.
"Become one with the gun"
 
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I do not see where the numbers "Suck".
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Of course the numbers don't "suck". The numbers are what they are; there's no denying physics (and thank you, Carl the Floor Walker, for the interesting information). I suspect that a lot of "felt" (as opposed to actual) recoil has much to do with how well (or not) the configuration of an individual's hand conforms to the grip of a particular pistol. Too, some individuals are simply more tolerant of recoil and notice it less and visa versa.
 
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I think you hit the nail of the head dgludwig. Some folks do seem to handle recoil better than others and I think that the more often you shoot the more immunity you gain from felt recoil. I have had some guns in the past that actually hurt when I first shot them, but thousands or rounds later, I did not even notice the recoil. take a micro 9mm that feels soft to you at the beginning and down the road it is almost like shooting a 22.cal.
 
Carl, people have different levels of recoil tolerance, but also technique can, and does change with use.

In post #28, the poster feels the Kahr has the worst recoil, and it is one of the ones I prefer. That his knuckles smack the trigger guard tells me that he has really large hands or insufficient grip strength or technique for that pistol. Not good or bad, just does not work for him and he found something that did.

Being a competitive shooter, I work on vision and grip strength regularly. A friend of mine did a study on grip strength to find the median and span among non-shooters and the up the scale to GM shooters. What he found, generally, was that better shooters had grip strength above the median by about 30 pounds. The more grip strength you have, the better the control and the less the fatigue given an appropriate grip on a pistol, especially a small one. When I started doing the three exercises to increase my grip strength, that was already above median, I did see benefit, especially in the longer days and when otherwise tired.
 
I find the P365 to be incredibly shootable for such a small gun. Recoil isn't bad at all... as long as you hold on tight. People sometimes shoot it and complain, but the issue is always grip. You can't hold it as gently as a larger gun, you need to grab the thing like you mean it. Which is fine, because I'm guessing that in a defense scenario, you'd be holding on pretty tight!
 
MarkCO said:
Carl, people have different levels of recoil tolerance, but also technique can, and does change with use.

In post #28, the poster feels the Kahr has the worst recoil, and it is one of the ones I prefer. That his knuckles smack the trigger guard tells me that he has really large hands or insufficient grip strength or technique for that pistol. Not good or bad, just does not work for him and he found something that did.

Being a competitive shooter, I work on vision and grip strength regularly. A friend of mine did a study on grip strength to find the median and span among non-shooters and the up the scale to GM shooters. What he found, generally, was that better shooters had grip strength above the median by about 30 pounds. The more grip strength you have, the better the control and the less the fatigue given an appropriate grip on a pistol, especially a small one. When I started doing the three exercises to increase my grip strength, that was already above median, I did see benefit, especially in the longer days and when otherwise tired.
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Agree with you on all accounts. I think Grip strength has a lot to do with shooting well ,especially the small guns which do require a solid, firm grip. . Personally I think many small guns that have complaints of failing are actually user error. Improper grip and strength, both of which lead to limp wresting. I have seen too many complaints of guns at the range and proven to the owner that it was not the gun, but his own faulty handling.
There are also other things to consider in recoil. One of my favorites of all times is the Beretta Nano. A very mild shooter. Doing some experimenting with the gun, I bought a 18lb recoil spring to test out. The Stock is 16#. I noticed right away the felt recoil was lighter. I then tried out the #20lb. And yet lighter still. Was it less muzzle flip etc? I do not know. But I have two of these guns and shot them shot them side by side in comparison with different springs and even if blind folded, I would be able to tell the difference. Now all two of these guns have the #20lb and my son has a #18lb in his APX Carry.
My EDC micro 9mm is the Kahr CM9. I carry this gun over the Nano because it is much lighter at only 15.8 oz. BUT it is a mild shooter. Not as mild as the Nano, but certainly no complaints from me. Now this gun defies the Chart, it is rated with a heavier recoil than some of the others, but felt recoil is lighter shooting (at least for me). And I have wondered so many times why? Is it the way Kahr builds their guns? I think that has something to do with it, but I also think the reason may be the Strong Recoil spring that Kahr engineered for their pistol. Yes they are strong. In fact many complain about them. But this gun for what ever reason shoots mild for me. I really think the strong Recoil spring has something to do with the nice shooting of this pistol especially for the small size and the very light weight.

Ps. Like yourself I am a firm believer in "Sport Specific Exercises". I use a dumbbell that strengthens the same muscle groups that are used holding a gun up to shoot as well as wrist exercises and a device for fingers strength and grip strength which helps. Start a program of just doing these exercises and they will make any gun feel lighter and Grip strength improves naturally, rather than feeling like you are having to put a lot of effort into it.
 
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A "felt recoil" thread is about as non-conclusive as a "best lube" thread. Bore height, barrel length, material from which the frame and slide are made, thickness of the back of the grip frame in your hand, and probably a couple of dozen other characteristics of a pistol will influence felt recoil. That's without taking into consideration the shooter's grip on the gun, experience level, etc.
 
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