9mm SD ammo: School me

Constantine said:
I hate .40 Smith and Wesson.

I carry and shoot 127gr Winchester Ranger T +p+ and I still handle it just as well as the standard or +p rounds. It's all about practice. It isn't as bad as people are saying it is.



Edit to add, also a Glock 19.
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I've read a few articles where that round failed to expand at all.
 
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im in the camp of any polymer-tipped hollowpoint in +p. i don't get too concerned with specific weights, but i don't go under 125gr. i know the hornaday flex-tips aren't the most expensive, or the latest and greatest with huge advertising, but they plain work. they consistently expand through multiple denims and cannot clog and they penetrate very well. ultra consistent and EVERY pistol i have ever shot eats them up due to the agressively tapered profile. standard XTP w/o the tip is good as well, but can clog. Gold dot's are some of the biggest culprits of clogging, due to the very impressive HP cavity, and gold dots have awesome expansion and penetration if they work. if they made a tipped gold-dot i think it would blow the competition out of the gel. shootingthebull410 settled on HST as the BEST of his very long, tedious and comprehensive testing. i urge you to check out his channel and his "9mm ammo quest" series and educate yourself. i have done a good bit of testing on my own and found that most all premium hollow-points will expand, it's the penetration that can be iffy. the only round that has been a complete and dismal FAILURE in my own testing was federal hydra-shok, which is kinda why i haven't been to eager to jump on the HST bandwagon. but federal makes very consitent and quality range ammo, so i totally trust their QC and trust the reliability of their ammo.

regardless, it's interesting and kinda fun to study and debate the ballistics of different SD ammo, but when push comes to shove, as long as it's reliable, feeds in your weapon, is of a decent weight that will penetrate adequaltely(80-90gr is not appropriate SD ammo despite what liberty and others will tell you), the bad guy isn't going to tell the difference until he gets on the operating table.

take note of the size of the cavity, as some of the "micro nines" with very steep ramps will not like the flat top of these bullets. think gold-dot, sierra sportmaster and hyrdashok somewhat. i feel that hornady tipped hollow-points are the best choice for a "do-all" bullet and will feed reliably in anything and is generally better priced as some of the harder to find stuff.

i am going to tell you my dirty little secret that gets me flamed on these forums, i do not advocate this practice, it just makes me feel comfortable........so here goes. i feel there is an increasing possibility of attempted "mass" violence in public places. although the odds of this are so insanely low, i still like to have the comfort of possibly being able to stop an attacker that has on soft body armor. i know that NO 9mm will defeat plate armor or even really good kevlar. but i still keep 2 rounds of the xtremepenetrator 90gr, loaded as fast as possible at the bottom of my mag. it can defeat level IIa body armor and possibly higher(havent seen a higher test yet). will likely never become a life saving practice for me, and i am well aware of how silly it is, but it's there if the most extreme perfect circumstance arises.

there may also be something to the xtreme penetrator as an all purpose SD round, although more testing is needed, it does create a very decent sized permanent cavity. just depends on how you feel about over-peneration. sorry for the long post........summary: i like hornady 9mm 135gr Flex-Lock Critical Duty +P or the Hornady 125gr Critical Defense +P. Also consider what you feel is needed for your living situation and if you have family in pararell rooms with nothing but sheetrock dividing you, you may decide a fragmenting ammo, even though not as ballistically superior, may be a better choice for your home defense situation.

good luck on your journey to find your "perfect" ammo, and realize that it's not a big a deal as we all make it out to be, just lots of fun to debate

one more thing i forgot to mention. stay away from "ranger" and especially "golden sabre". they are both very inconsistent performers despite their very high cost and claims. i had high hopes for the golden sabre because that "driving bad" really did make for an extremely accurate bullet, probably the most accurate 9mm bullet i have ever shot. i assume due to its very long bearing surface, but it just didn't perfom well, i wish it did. i was using a 3" barrel, so maybe it just needs some added velocity and may work well for duty sized weapons, but does very poorly in carry guns.
 
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But even BETTER is their WOUND BALLISTICS - LOAD COMPARISON tool. Neat!

http://le.atk.com/wound_ballistics/l...omparison.aspx
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That is a spiffy tool. Interestingly, the current results seem to differ a bit from those tabulated on Federal HST and Speer GD charts that appeared a while back. Now the only 9 Luger round that meets the IWBA's minimum penetration criteria in bare gel (12.5 in) and in gel covered in IWBA heavy clothing (13.0 in) is the Speer 147-gr GDHP. The Federal Premium 147-gr HST meets the weaker FBI criteria.

The common phenomenon of an equivalent weight +P round causing a bullet to expand more and penetrate less is easily seen with this tool.
 
Another I find useful is the WIN PDX1 124 +P. The bullet is similar to the Black Talons. If I'm not carrying Hornady 135s I'll have the PDX1s instead.

Sadly I don't have my Sigma 9mm anymore as I preferred my Sig P250c 40sw for carry.
 
Tnoutdoors9 channel on YouTube has a lot of good tests. He even compares +p and standard in a couple videos.
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Agree. Based on his testing, which I think is usually conducted with a 4" Glock 19, I concluded that at least in a 4" plus barrel their does not appear to be any discernible advantage to a +P load in 9mm, at least with modern projectiles.

My personal favorites for my CZ-75 include the standard pressure 124 and 147 grain Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST. I can never find the 147 grain ammo or HST, so for now I carry the 124 Gold Dots.
 
Both of these rounds are proving to be incredibly difficult to find locally. Standard pressure gold dots are hard to even find online.
 
Negative on both of those. SG shows both of them out of stock and I can't find either brand in the 124gr weight at ammunition depot.
 
HST and GoldDot are the gold standard. HST 147 work well in any barrel length and has really made the heavy 147 grain a reliable choice.
Massammo.com has them in stock. I have them all but now I am a HST believer in every caliber.
 
I use 124 gr +p. If speed didn't matter the 357 mag would've never been developed because the 38 wasn't getting the job done. Exactly which brand doesn't matter much, but I got a deal on 500 rounds of Speer Gold Dots a few years ago. I shoot them sparingly and use them as my carry load. I get 1250 fps from a 4" G-19. That is within 50 fps of standard 125 gr 357 mag loads from 4" barrels. Recoil is barely noticeable compared to non +P loads and a lot less than 357 mag loads.
 
All performance arguments aside, because I really don't think it matters with any modern, SD ammo, I'll answer the recoil question with my opinion.
I carry Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +P Short Barrel in my Kahr CM9. I will admit that recoil is something that rarely concerns me so my opinion may not be valid, or equal to yours. But to me, I notice very little, if any difference with the Gold Dot+P, and any WWB, Remington, or other standard pressure fmj range ammo.
But I guess if someone is very sensitive to recoil, they might tell a difference.
 
I wouldn't consider myself recoil sensitive but probably my main motivation for getting a 9mm was the difference in my shot recovery time versus .40 and .45 and I would like to maximize that by not using +P ammo.

Just bought 100 rounds of 124gr HST on Gunbroker, I overpaid just a hair ($1.30/round) but it's better than not having any.
 
I have a pretty good stockpile of 135gr Critical Duty, 124gr HST, and 147gr XTP, and all in standard pressure loadings.

I shoot A LOT of Critical Duty and HST and just from my personal experience, the Hornady is slightly more accurate and, has less report and recoil than the HST. It really is a soft shooting round and after shooting a bunch of the CD first (and/or XTP), when moving to the HST it seems like I am shooting a +P in comparison lol.

That being said however, if I was carrying a short barrel pistol similar to what ShootingTheBull410 uses in his tests, HST is the first choice I would use, followed by (in no particular order) Critical Defense, Cor Bon DPX, or Winchester Defend.

Tucker 1371 said:
Negative on both of those. SG shows both of them out of stock and I can't find either brand in the 124gr weight at ammunition depot.
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Give it time, they'll have 'em back in stock. They always seem to magically have them in stock the majority of the time. Ya may wanna try some of the Hornady Critical Duty out Tucker...

[emoji106]
 
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Find out what your local PD is using and use the exact same round.

I believe in Masaad Ayoob and others who have trial experience when they say that non-standard weapons and ammunition are not what you want when the time comes to stand accountable.

Hand loads or custom pistol work might imply that you intended to use your equipment to kill, per-meditating the inevitable lethal usage of the weapon and ammunition. A hollowpoint you load yourself might be a weapon of mass destruction designed to cause damage beyond what was necessary to stop the threat, implying malice on behalf of the shooter. I know that stuff is a wild card and anything can happen in court but I personally want to carry a gun that looks "normal" and which shoots "normal" ammunition. My plan in court would be to say that I didn't want to kill anyone I just wanted to protect myself and I looked to law enforcement for guidance on the best way to do so.

In Seattle, WA that's 124gr Speer Gold Dot. I also recommend a nickel or stainless finish so your gun is light colored. Much like a western where you knew he was a good guy because he had a white hat I think stainless/nickel/tribal rainbow/girl pink color guns imply goodguy status.
 
I also recommend a nickel or stainless finish so your gun is light colored. Much like a western where you knew he was a good guy because he had a white hat I think stainless/nickel/tribal rainbow/girl pink color guns imply goodguy status.
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WHAT?!?!??!!???:eek:

I would LOVE to see some validation of that statement.

The hue of your pistol will have ZERO bearing on the legal out ome of your shooting. Save MAYBE, if you had a custom finish with the Grim Reaper and the slogan "I live to kill" emblazoned on the slide.

ANY standard finish or even a benign custom one will NEVER (big word) come up in a court
 
Wouldn't using the exact same rounds as the local law enforcement get one labeled as a 'wanna be' cop?
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More like a prudent shopper. The Local/State/Fed LE agencies have a much larger budget for testing and evaluation of ammo then you do. The FBI spends money like CRAZY in T&E of guns and ammo.

Take advantage of that knowledge base and money spent
 
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