9mm puzzler

I think a good compromise might be to pick up some of the Golden Saber bullets that Aged Warrior found and load them for reliability testing. That will get it down to $0.25-0.30/round, depending on shipping and other component choices. It will make for a 100% certifiable feed test and create less-expensive-than-factory ammo for working up a match to the commercial load performance (if it can be safely done without a proprietary powder), followed by an approximation with cheaper bullets for high volume practice.

The 1911 out of the box can have some ammo selectiveness issues, but they aren't hard to modify to be more forgiving. Mine will let your rack empty cases throught them all day without a hiccup.
 
RC20 said:
You have one major consideration to start with and that is 1911 is not the poster child for non ball.
Click to expand...
That used to be true, but it's not the case for most modern 1911s. The one I'm working with has a Para ramped barrel. Other Paras I've shot have swallowed anything and everything.

RC20 said:
The COAL is even less relevant. GS has a shape and Barrys has a shape and they are nothign alike (in bullet terms)
Click to expand...
Actually, they are very much alike. VERY much ... Close enough that I'll feel comfortable using the Berry's for initial testing. If a hundred or 200 rounds of that go through the gun with no stoppages, then I'll be willing to invest a box of Golden Sabers as final confirmation.
 
Unclenick said:
I think a good compromise might be to pick up some of the Golden Saber bullets that Aged Warrior found and load them for reliability testing.
Click to expand...
Done.

If I had found those initially, I wouldn't have gone with the Berry's. None of the places I usually shop for reloading components had this particular bullet.
 
RC20 said:
While GS is considered a good SD round, it does not mean its a good 1911 round.
Click to expand...
The friend who recommended the Golden Sabers carries and competes with 1911s, and he knows that's what I carry. In general, the ogive profile of Golden Saber bullets is closer to that of ball ammo than many other JHP bullets. It has been established by many 1911 shooters over the years that balky 1911s will generally shoot Golden Sabers (in .45 ACP) when they won't shoot anything else.
 
Actually, they are very much alike. VERY much
Click to expand...

They are NOT.

GS are bore riders with a driving band; Berry's are not. That changes the pressure curve.
GS are Jacketed using a gilding metal alloy; Berrys are copper plated. That changes the pressure curve even more.

These two facts change the dynamic in a huge way. If all you care about is that they will feed burn some of your stock. If you really care about 200 rounds of "verified" loads do the smart thing and get some GS component bullets; load them up and test them. Then at least you will have an apples to apples comparison...at least it will be Golden Delicious vs. Red Delicious.

I once and ONLY once got GS component for my 1911 in 45......NEVER AGAIN. But my Extreme loads ran just fine.
 
SHR970 said:
If all you care about is that they will feed burn some of your stock.
Click to expand...
How many times, and in how many ways, can I make it clear that this is ALL I care about at this stage?

I have examined a Golden Saber cartridge compared to one of my Berry's reloads under a lighted magnifier. The profiles are so close that I cannot see any difference. That's good enough IMHO to use for testing feed reliability.
 
Have you actually disassembled one? Try measuring the diameter of the part not in the brass. There is a driving band under the crimp. They are NOT the same or even close....at least that is my experience with the 45's taught me.

If that is your 'good enough IMHE' for you then why ask? I've loaded plated since the early 90's. I've offered two reasons why you are treading on thin ice based on real experience. Cheap insurance is 'pull a bullet' and measure both the leade and the band that you will find. THEN let's talk.

Edit to add: My intent is that you do not 'violently disassemble' your gun in your hand. Feed is one thing... run is another.

Edit #2: What powders do you have so I can compare to my load notes. I usually run Win or AA with Xtreme. Berry's are softer and I have some 'adjustments' for them.
 
Last edited:
I think its a wasted typing.

OP believes that by looking you can discern the profile when in fact if you look the GS has that odd twist up front and it takes a laser scan to actually profile a bullet correctly. One HP is exactly like another, nothign to see here folks, just move on.

No one can tell the OP that, so its a case of wanting confirmation to the bias.

So yes, it will work perfectly and you have nothing to worry about, its 124.2% guaranteed by John Brown (who at last look was moldering in his grave)
 
Last edited:
Here is some advice about being fixated on OAL. Don't be. Use drop test to see maximum OAL your pistol can take with X bullet. Then as long as your under mag length, and you can feed reliably, it makes no difference what OAL you use. Of course, shorter OAL means higher pressure...

My advice is get a chrony, load various OAL's..and find a load that is between 330 Lbs energy and 350 lbs energy out of 4" barrel, with pretty much ANY powder suited for 9 MM, and that is it. If you shoot for this energy area, and start low loads, you will find the way. With 5" Barrel, up numbers...

inspect cases, etc after shooting. Its flatly obvious to anyone that reloads what is high pressure and what is not. Recoil, primer, brass measurement, energy reading, FPS, etc...

People get fixated on SAMMI and books, and its just a guideline. The barrel they used, etc is nowhere near the same as your gun, and the pressures will be different.
 
9MMand223only said:
Here is some advice about being fixated on OAL. Don't be. Use drop test to see maximum OAL your pistol can take with X bullet. Then as long as your under mag length, and you can feed reliably, it makes no difference what OAL you use. Of course, shorter OAL means higher pressure...

My advice is get a chrony, load various OAL's..and find a load that is between 330 Lbs energy and 350 lbs energy out of 4" barrel, with pretty much ANY powder suited for 9 MM, and that is it. If you shoot for this energy area, and start low loads, you will find the way. With 5" Barrel, up numbers...
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response, but you obviously did not understand what I'm trying to accomplish.

I built a new gun. It will be a carry gun. For legal reasons which have been discussed at length on this and other forums, I will only carry factory-loaded ammunition for self defense. Therefore, trying to optimize a load for accuracy, velocity, or muzzle energy is not part of the equation.

What IS part of the equation is shooting enough ammunition through the gun to confirm that it's reliable before adding it to my carry rotation. But ... my chosen carry ammo is Remington Golden Saber, of which I have a small stock. Remington discontinued Golden Saber. Whether the new Ultimate Defense is the same ammo with a different name or not ... it costs north of a dollar per round. I'm a senior citizen living mostly on social (in)security -- I can't afford to buy a couple or three hundred dollars worth of premium ammunition to prove to myself that the gun is reliable.

So the name of the game is to load my own test ammo that's the same length and the same shape as Remington Golden Saber, and use that to perform most of the reliability testing. Once I've made it through a couple of hundred of my reloads, then I'll shoot a box or two of factory ammo as a final test.

I thought I was fairly clear about what I'm doing in my opening post. Apparently I wasn't clear enough.
 
I see no reason you can't do what you wanna do. Hell, I don't pay much attention to book COAL with handgun cartridges anyways. If they pass the plunk test, they are good to go for me. Of course, you gotta use common sense with all of it. Some folks are good with common sense and some are not. As always, it never hurts to ask.

Just me, but I always seat bullets until they just pass the plunk test with the semi-autos.

Just me again, but I almost always shoot my home brewed cast bullets in the semis and the revolvers.

I have been shooting since 1955 (I was young then) and reloading since April 1963 and I haven't blown up a firearm of any kind. I have had one blown primer (my fault) and no case head separations. Also, I only had one squib load during that time frame. I have never had a cartridge case come apart in a sizing die. That's 64 years of shooting and 56 years of reloading.
 
Last edited:
Sorry I didnt understand.

I think the problem you will have, is that you need to buy many bullets to see which bullet, with the same energy (your reloads) has same point of impact as the GS. This is not easy. Every single bullet has different POI slightly, and some hugely. That is if you want precision. If you just want to hit a 6" target at 25 yards, that is easy.
 
9MMand223only said:
Sorry I didnt understand.

I think the problem you will have, is that you need to buy many bullets to see which bullet, with the same energy (your reloads) has same point of impact as the GS. This is not easy. Every single bullet has different POI slightly, and some hugely. That is if you want precision. If you just want to hit a 6" target at 25 yards, that is easy.
Click to expand...
You still don't understand. I don't care where the point of impact is for my reloads, as long as it's generally downrange from the firing line. The ONLY purpose for these reloads will be for verifying the functionality of a newly-built pistol. Once I know it's reliable, it will be carried with commercial ammunition. And I already know that the pistol shoots to point of aim at 25 feet with 124-grain Golden Saber ammo (not bullets -- Remington ammo).

This is an Officers-size 1911 -- 3-1/2-inch barrel. It's not a range blaster or a plinker, it's a self-defense pistol. It will be carried often and shot rarely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top