9mm or .40 for personal defense
- Thread starter Glockfan36
- Start date
Justice06RR
New member
we all know 9mm bullets are too weak and bounce off bad guys. hahahaha
Did someone say; .357sig?....
Ha ha ha!
But really, the SIG Sauer execs in the early 1990s wanted a semi auto pistol format for the ballistics of a snub 3"/2.5" .357magnum.
I think the round has a lot of merit, it just never really got the buzz & + press of the .40S&W.
The .40Super is top notch too but it's even rarer.
Clyde
Ha ha ha!
But really, the SIG Sauer execs in the early 1990s wanted a semi auto pistol format for the ballistics of a snub 3"/2.5" .357magnum.
I think the round has a lot of merit, it just never really got the buzz & + press of the .40S&W.
The .40Super is top notch too but it's even rarer.
Clyde
Stressfire
New member
True, but when we are all cutting and pasting our replies (and dead horse pictures
) from our replies to previous posts, the horse has not only been beaten, but has been gutted, skinned, turned into dog food and paste, and been recycled by our dogs and paste-eating kindergarteners into fertilizer to feed more horses - circle of life, if you will
What about vampires & werewolves? Would love to get some wooden bullet talk going and I hear Oregon Trail makes a great silver bullet
Personally, I don't understand why gun makers would churn out guns with a caliber devised by their competitor - i.e. Glocks in 357 Sig, Beretta's in .40 S&W, so on and so forth - Then again if everyone refused to make ACP calibers we would not have a very productive industry
You hear about horses being turned into dog food and glue but I just want to make a few points.
I know someone who routinely flys to France, and she says horse meat is excellent. She likes it better than beef although she admits it gives her a little heartburn. Nothing that a Rolaid can't fix though and she always gets a horse dish when she's there.
In the U.S. the horse meat comment is used to disparage a cut of beef served in a restaraunt - like "this thing still has the marks where the jockey was beating it.." But from what I've heard horsemeat is delicious.
There is a misconception that horses are slaughtered for pet food, however. In many countries, like the United States, horse meat was outlawed in pet food in the 1970s. I think it's illegal in the U.S. to either serve horsemeat or to process horses for human consumption which is too bad.
Until 2007, a few horse meat slaughterhouses still existed in the United States, selling meat to zoos to feed their carnivores, and exporting it for human consumption, but the last one, Cavel International - right here in Dekalb, Illinois, was closed by court order in 2007. The closure reportedly caused a surplus of horses in Illinois.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070629/horse-slaughter/
If I were being attacked by horses I'd use a 9mm instead of a .40 S&W because the 9mm would be just as effective in stopping the horse attack but with less recoil.
Once a horse gets shot -it's not like a grizzly bear, it's not going to continue the attack.
I know someone who routinely flys to France, and she says horse meat is excellent. She likes it better than beef although she admits it gives her a little heartburn. Nothing that a Rolaid can't fix though and she always gets a horse dish when she's there.
In the U.S. the horse meat comment is used to disparage a cut of beef served in a restaraunt - like "this thing still has the marks where the jockey was beating it.." But from what I've heard horsemeat is delicious.
There is a misconception that horses are slaughtered for pet food, however. In many countries, like the United States, horse meat was outlawed in pet food in the 1970s. I think it's illegal in the U.S. to either serve horsemeat or to process horses for human consumption which is too bad.
Until 2007, a few horse meat slaughterhouses still existed in the United States, selling meat to zoos to feed their carnivores, and exporting it for human consumption, but the last one, Cavel International - right here in Dekalb, Illinois, was closed by court order in 2007. The closure reportedly caused a surplus of horses in Illinois.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070629/horse-slaughter/
If I were being attacked by horses I'd use a 9mm instead of a .40 S&W because the 9mm would be just as effective in stopping the horse attack but with less recoil.
Once a horse gets shot -it's not like a grizzly bear, it's not going to continue the attack.
I'll add some fuel the horse-beating pyre; many PDs across the country are (gasp) switching back to the 9 from the 40, or allowing their officers to choose which they prefer. Several SWAT/Tactical units have simply switched, period, because of the superior ability to get back on target/make faster follow-up shots with the 9 in tense situations, in their estimation. Really, I guess, anytime an officer pulls his/her weapon it is a tense situation.
It amazes me that so often when a statement like the one I made about PDs switching is made, there are those who will start questioning the virility/manhood/womanhood of anyone who can't handle the 40 vs the 9.
They're all good. Pick the one you like, learn to shoot it effectively and move on.
It amazes me that so often when a statement like the one I made about PDs switching is made, there are those who will start questioning the virility/manhood/womanhood of anyone who can't handle the 40 vs the 9.
They're all good. Pick the one you like, learn to shoot it effectively and move on.
Stressfire
New member
I think it would take less time to determine what the french won't eat. Snails, frogs (no pun intended), if you look up supermarket in the Eng-Fre thesaurus swamp can be substituted. Mmmm, horse, the other other other other white meat.
.40 might work OK if you use one with the rotating barrel, take some of the snappiness out - but a 9mm would get better penetration
I think we're all in agreement as far as the caliber wars go anymore, just fun to hypothesize and hyperbolize
Glockfan36
New member
Guys, please calm down.
I was not trying to start "World Caliber War XXIXX" or whatever- I was simply trying to make the statement that we should carry what we're comfortable with. The 9mm may be smaller/weaker, but the trade-offs are that it's a potent, low-recoil round that will do if you will do. That smaller size also means a higher capacity in guns chambered for it.As has been said before, ccw is all about trade-offs, nothing else. Absolutely no reason to get bent out of shape. Not everyone can carry or feel comfortable with .40 or .45- that's why I carry a 9mm. Someday, when I'm older, I could see myself switching to to a larger caliber for everyday carry (namely the .45). But for right now, I'm perfectly happy with the nine!
I was not trying to start "World Caliber War XXIXX" or whatever- I was simply trying to make the statement that we should carry what we're comfortable with. The 9mm may be smaller/weaker, but the trade-offs are that it's a potent, low-recoil round that will do if you will do. That smaller size also means a higher capacity in guns chambered for it.As has been said before, ccw is all about trade-offs, nothing else. Absolutely no reason to get bent out of shape. Not everyone can carry or feel comfortable with .40 or .45- that's why I carry a 9mm. Someday, when I'm older, I could see myself switching to to a larger caliber for everyday carry (namely the .45). But for right now, I'm perfectly happy with the nine!
Stressfire
New member
I think most of us know that, but we also know what direction these threads often take off in. So we're havin' fun with it
Join us on the dark side, Luke!I would carry my 9, but I have yet to find a holster that will hide my full size 92 somewhere on my narrow self
So I went to a sub-compact 45 and most recently a .380 - and I am perfectly comfortable with the .380.But somewhat back on topic, what is your 9mm carry?
cougar gt-e
New member
When people ask "9mm or .40s&w or .45acp for defense?" my answer is yes.
Those three will certainly work and work well. Others will too, so it's not an exclusive list!
No need to make anybodies Wheaties yellow...
Those three will certainly work and work well. Others will too, so it's not an exclusive list!
No need to make anybodies Wheaties yellow...
It is my understanding that all service level calibers are about equal.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Personally I prefer one notch up ... a .357 magnum.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Personally I prefer one notch up ... a .357 magnum.
UnicornDeathMachine
Inactive
I a curious about the slight change In color in this photo ^ also, where could I find a similar ballistic - gel photo with other / more calibers?
Glockfan36
New member
@Stressfire
My current 9mm is a Glock 26. Down the road a bit, I'll switch to an XDM9 in 3.8". Thank you for your curiosity.
My current 9mm is a Glock 26. Down the road a bit, I'll switch to an XDM9 in 3.8". Thank you for your curiosity.
LockedBreech
New member
I prefer .40 and .45. Plenty will tell me I'm tacticool or ignorant or a fool or any combination of those for preferring them.
That said, I carry a .380 and I'm fully comfortable with 9, especially in subcompact weapons. It's just that for me the bigger rounds shoot equally easy. I'd like that little extra dash of oomph and barrier-penetration credentials.
The problem with that chart that shows all service calibers penetrating equally is that it doesn't take into account different bullet designs, which can make huge amounts of difference. I'd rather have a JHP in 9 than an FMJ in .40, but I'd rather have a JHP in .40 than a JHP in 9, etc. And within that distinction I'd rather have a Speer Gold Dot 9 than a Winchester Silvertip or Federal Hydra-Shok .40. It goes on and on...
I'm okay with any of 'em. They'll all do the job.
That said, I carry a .380 and I'm fully comfortable with 9, especially in subcompact weapons. It's just that for me the bigger rounds shoot equally easy. I'd like that little extra dash of oomph and barrier-penetration credentials.
The problem with that chart that shows all service calibers penetrating equally is that it doesn't take into account different bullet designs, which can make huge amounts of difference. I'd rather have a JHP in 9 than an FMJ in .40, but I'd rather have a JHP in .40 than a JHP in 9, etc. And within that distinction I'd rather have a Speer Gold Dot 9 than a Winchester Silvertip or Federal Hydra-Shok .40. It goes on and on...
I'm okay with any of 'em. They'll all do the job.
Ballistically speaking, if loaded with modern premium ammo like Speer Gold Dots, Federal HST, or Winchester Ranger I think that the 9mm, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP all perform much more alike than they do differently.
The real difference that I see between these cartridges is the types of platforms they're available in and their performance against intermediate barriers such as auto glass.
The real difference that I see between these cartridges is the types of platforms they're available in and their performance against intermediate barriers such as auto glass.
UnicornDeathMachine wrote:
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000581#000002
http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000581#000002
Bullet pullers, Massad Ayoob, .45acp DA/DAO revolvers...
Years ago, Massad Ayoob; the gunwriter & tactics instructor wrote about using N frame size .45acp DA revolvers for carry-protection. He said they had merit but I see them as bullet pullers more than anything else.
In 2011, a DA only or Glock/XDm striker system pistol is far better than a DA revolver for duty or defense. It's faster to reload, holds more rounds and can conceal better than a revolver.
The .44spl .44magnum .41magnum .357magnum do offer great ballistics but a .40S&W, .357sig 10mm .45acp pistol is a lot better IMO
Years ago, Massad Ayoob; the gunwriter & tactics instructor wrote about using N frame size .45acp DA revolvers for carry-protection. He said they had merit but I see them as bullet pullers more than anything else.
In 2011, a DA only or Glock/XDm striker system pistol is far better than a DA revolver for duty or defense. It's faster to reload, holds more rounds and can conceal better than a revolver.
The .44spl .44magnum .41magnum .357magnum do offer great ballistics but a .40S&W, .357sig 10mm .45acp pistol is a lot better IMO