9mm or .40? Advice please.

Brandon,

"We don't let people drive cars without passing a test, can't sell insurance without passing a test, why not have to pass a test to carry a firearm?"

Now you're scaring me! Driving a car is a privilege, not a right. So is selling insurance.

Voting is a right. Poll taxes and tests were used up until the '60s to deny that right to blacks. The machinations of governments to infringe on the voting rights of so many citizens were incredible -- despite The Constitution forbidding those rights being infringed. The point is despite infringement of voting rights clearly being off limits to government, they were infringed by government.

The Constitution is primarily a document that restricts what governments can do. The rest of the Constitution outlines administrative structures and operation. The enumerated rights, such as the right to keep and bear arms, were added before ratification to make sure there was no way governments could weasel around them as they subsequently did with voting rights. In effect, they say "no way, no how, under no circumstances, contrived, real, or imagined, is any government, federal, state, or local, empowered to infringe with the right of any citizen to...."

Even so, just think of the multitude of laws that do exactly that! They infringe OUR rights to keep and bear arms. Criminals don't pay any attention to them -- they're heavily armed.

Consider this: a homicidal sociopath cannot be detained until he commits a crime. But neither you nor I can legally pack heat in the most dangerous areas of California, Massachusetts, New York, etc., without previously having gone through a multitude of gyrations to prove to some bureaucrats that we MIGHT responsibly be able to exercise our RIGHT to bear arms despite all the legal and other troubles we would have for NOT responsibly exercising our RIGHT whether we submit to those unconstitutional laws or not. In short, ANY unjustified discharge of a firearm subjects the shooter to intense legal and civil scrutiny that can result in loss of his freedom and fortune whether the most stringent gun control laws have been complied with or not!

Now when you advocate another unconstitutional requirement for a citizen to bear a firearm, that scares me. The irony of the tagline used by a poster is appropriate, "If a passenger on one of the WTC planes had a gun, somebody might have been hurt...." (Not necessarily an exact quote)
 
Ok last debate

This was fun but it's getting old, so here goes one last time:

"We don't let people drive cars without passing a test, can't sell insurance without passing a test, why not have to pass a test to carry a firearm?" Now you're scaring me! Driving a car is a privilege, not a right. So is selling insurance.

I stated that I think that since it is a right, that everyone should be able to carry a firearm without a license. But.....since we have to have one, why not use it as an opprotunity to blah blah blah read my previous post for the rest........

Even so, just think of the multitude of laws that do exactly that! They infringe OUR rights to keep and bear arms. Criminals don't pay any attention to them -- they're heavily armed.

Very true, and this has me thinking twice.

Suppose you won whatever it is you're arguing for; what do you want the losers to do? If you don't know, then you're just arguing to argue, rather than to affect change in people's choices.

I am executing my right to free speech, whether I change anyone's mind I don't really care. If you want to carry a .50 Desert Eagle......GOOD HAVE FUN! Nobody is a "loser" in a good debate.

To anyone who supports the death penalty. Thank you again. <---Never said I didn't support it.

I guess I had just better pass a round of thanks to all the fellow "Killers" out there.

Ok ok, I admit it was a little harsh. Must have been the 2:30 am talking. I don't agree with that statement. I wouldn't consider myself a killer if I defended myself or anyone else from a BG.

Well it was fun! Have a great week guys!!!!!
 
This might not be too nice, but I did learn from this "debate".

Not to be too harsh, but I learned that there really are CC permit holders who really might be better off NOT carrying.

Shake
 
Grrrr

Not to be too harsh, but I learned that there really are CC permit holders who really might be better off NOT carrying.

Not to sound too harsh, but you are an *******. I'm glad you feel this way, but when you shoot someone dead and their family sues you for all you're worth, don't come crying to me.
 
You don't have to get angry about things Brandon. We here all strive to improve our knowledge of weapons and tactics. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. Many of us are open to suggestions and criticisms yet we defend what we believe to be true. We also tend to be skeptical of fast rising "Gun Experts" with much to say but little or no experience to go by.

Just looking at the history..

On 6-3-2001 you stated in a post..
Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm completly new to the .380 and new to semi-auto handguns. Thanks!
On 7-27-01
I spoke with a cop that lives in my apartment complex, and he told me that I need to get a larger gun than my .380, saying that I could shoot a criminal repeatedly and he still be on his feet and coming at me. Is this true?

On 7-29-01
A little piece of information: I use steel cored bullets. This may skew some of your opinions of about the inability of .380 to penetrate.

On 8-30-01
I just took a concealed carry class

On 9-10-01
To the people who say that "wonderbullets" don't improve one-shot knockdown percentages, maybe they should read up a little bit.

On 9-10-01
I have some Russian AP stuff, but I don't want to use it because the bullet doesn't deform on impact.

Your history speaks for itself. I'm sure your opinions will change as you gain more personal experience in these matters.
Since picking up your first semi auto in June and obtaining a concealed carry permit in August....providing that there wan't more of a month or so delay in having the permit issued, you have since become an expert on shot placement, ammo, weapons and what is right for everyone. Even folks who do not agree with your opinions are labeled "Rambo's" and "Killers".

Normally I don't get too involved into a post. This one kinda got to me. I'm sure you'll have some witty reply before this thread is shut down.

Good Shooting
RED
 
Brandon the expert witness.

This guy is wasting our virtual time. He doesn't even know what he's advocating at this time, let alone last week. If he did, he would have something to say to my questions.

If this board is just a place to senselessly argue, rather than convince others with a well thought out observation, I can just spend my time at my in-law's.
 
brandon_h3,

Whatever. . . (I can't believe I'm responding to this)

I'll be anxiously looking forward to your posts in the future.

:rolleyes:

Shake
 
brandon_h3,

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but taking a cue from Redlg155. . . in a previous thread you said this:

All in all I feel a few words spoken in the correct tone of voice will turn an intruder around quicker than the shot from a .50 caliber:

YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES. YOU CAN LEAVE NOW AND LIVE, OR OPEN THAT DOOR AND FIND OUT IF I HAVE BEEN PRACTICING ENOUGH AT THE GUN RANGE. TAKE YOUR CHOICE.

If he is in your house:

I DON'T AGREE WITH THE LAW THAT SAYS I CAN'T SHOOT YOUR ASS FOR JUST BEING IN MY HOUSE. (simple, isn't it?)

I do feel using something other than I'M GOING TO KILL YOUR ASS will do the job, and quite possibly ensure that you don't have to use your gun to actually kill someone.
In light of the above statements, perhaps you'd like to edit some of the comments you made in this thread?

As an aside, after reading many of your posts, its seems as though you are feeling insecure about your choice of concealed carry caliber (.380). As I said before, use the largest caliber you can shoot well (with allowances for size and concealability). If it is a .380 then that will have to suffice. You don't need to search for reassurance from others if that is the largest caliber you can handle.

I'm gonzo. . .

Shake
 
UNCLE!

Uncle! I cry....

re:

You'll have to clarify this statement. Are you advocating using weaker calibers so that criminals aren't killed?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Need I say it again.....your job isn't to KILL HIM, it's to stop his attack!!

To all those dancing on the head of a pin (how many I can't count) ;) :

The term "stopping" your assailant is a PC euphemism for shooting him until the threat ceases, at which time the perpetrator may be dead or dying (worry about that later). THAT is the reality, which some people are squeamish about saying or admitting. If you are, maybe you should reconsider carrying a deadly weapon.

You have made the decision-- hopefully the correct one morally, legally, and tactically-- to engage this person(s) with deadly force. The law doesn't prescribe what caliber you should use, and in fact would likely consider the use of a .22LR to be the same as a .44mag, in terms of potential lethality (don't forget, more deer have been killed with a .22 than anything except 30-30, I've read, and the .22 has killed many people outside of war).

With this aforementioned decision to use deadly force, you should have chosen a caliber that gives you the best chance of stopping the threat, based on convenience, practicality, evidence, concealability, etc. It's a subjective decision. Maybe you're just mowing your grass, and slip your Airweight .38 in your jeans, not expecting to encounter a full-scale assault. Or, you're taking the receipts from your business on the bad side of town to the bank, and there have been numerous ripoffs lately, so you have your 1911 .45 on you. You adjust the weapon/caliber to suit the threat, maybe. Or, if like me, you choose to carry your Glock/1911 almost all the time, with rare exceptions, because of the adage "if you knew you were going to get into a gunfight, would you go there?"... in other words, when you least expect it, expect it.

It's completely specious reasoning to shy from using a caliber because of it's additional potential lethality. If, in shooting an attacker, you just want to wound or "stop" them, you may have broken the law concerning use of deadly force, as the use may not have been justifiable. If you shoot them, you must accept the fact that WHATEVER caliber you're using, they may well die, even if that's not the primary goal. Make any sense? So, use the caliber you feel confident is up to the job, and confident that you can use well enough to accomplish the job. If it's .380 (not my 1st choice), so be it. .44 mag? Fine too. I've chosen a compromise between magazine capacity, size, caliber, and ballistic performance... the 9mm +P in the Glock 19 (unless it's my 1911). Don't fall for the malarky that a jury will string you up for using your .44 because they think you're Rambo. You could have just as well used your 12ga with slugs, and increased the odds of the perp dying from 20% to 80%+, and it would be justifiable, if deadly force was warranted. THAT is the critical point.

Your mileage may vary. IMHO.
 
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