Roland Thunder
New member
What is a better home defense round
9mm or .38spl
- Thread starter Roland Thunder
- Start date
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
OK, let's see:
Who will say:
1. 45 ACP
2. Shotgun?
How about it makes no difference if you have quality SD rounds and you are adequately trained?
Who will say:
1. 45 ACP
2. Shotgun?
How about it makes no difference if you have quality SD rounds and you are adequately trained?
spacecoast
New member
Of those two, I give a slight edge to the .38 special due to choice of guns, slightly heavier rounds and subsonic nature of most/all .38 special ammo. I consider a .45 ACP revolver to be the ideal HD handgun.
Agree with the others; difference between the two isn't really significant. The shooter's ability with the platform matters much more.
Question then becomes, what do you handle and shoot better?
Bear in mind, I don't mean at the range, under ideal conditions.
Something just woke you up; your adrenaline is going, and you are both a bit shaky from adrenaline and clumsy from not being able to wake up normally. Which gun are you more likely to be able to:
1) Not do anything stupid with (such as discharging from nervous clumsiness);
2) Get into action (for those who don't like to leave a round in the chamber or a magazine in the well); and
3) Hit the BG with, if necessary?
Question then becomes, what do you handle and shoot better?
Bear in mind, I don't mean at the range, under ideal conditions.
Something just woke you up; your adrenaline is going, and you are both a bit shaky from adrenaline and clumsy from not being able to wake up normally. Which gun are you more likely to be able to:
1) Not do anything stupid with (such as discharging from nervous clumsiness);
2) Get into action (for those who don't like to leave a round in the chamber or a magazine in the well); and
3) Hit the BG with, if necessary?
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
We've done this before. Really, as I said - with modern ammo and guns, there are marginal differences between the 38s, 9s, 40s up to the 45s for SD.
It's really a gun platform you shoot well. Experts continually downplay the equipment issue if you follow what I said above.
Also, with no offense - if you recommend a shotgun - have you actually trained with it in tactics for SD? It's an internet cliche. Lots of folks prefer a 223 platform for the home long arm.
The focus on caliber detracts from the important issues, given you haven't come up to speed on tactics, strategy, mindset, etc.
I feel comfortable if I pick up my Glock 9, SW 19 or 1911. Between those, there is no real difference in utility of round. Capacity yes.
It's really a gun platform you shoot well. Experts continually downplay the equipment issue if you follow what I said above.
Also, with no offense - if you recommend a shotgun - have you actually trained with it in tactics for SD? It's an internet cliche. Lots of folks prefer a 223 platform for the home long arm.
The focus on caliber detracts from the important issues, given you haven't come up to speed on tactics, strategy, mindset, etc.
I feel comfortable if I pick up my Glock 9, SW 19 or 1911. Between those, there is no real difference in utility of round. Capacity yes.
Roland Thunder
New member
MLeake said:
Glenn E. Meyer said:
I asked this question mostly on behalf of my wife and she prefers a revolver for simplicity reasons. She doesn't like having to deal with magazines, racking the slide, is there a round in the chamber or not. So the answer for her is probably the .38. For me, I am confortable with either one.
2damnold4this
New member
Both are great cartridges that have stood the test of time. I feel fine with either.
I'm like jimbob, don't shoot nearly as well in DA so I'd take the 9mm. My 357 mag is for camping, 9mm for carry and 12 gauge for HD. I do however keep my 9 near me when around the house.
A 9mm is a better round than a 38 special, but a 357 mag or 45 acp is better than a 9mm. More important than that is picking a gun one shoots well. I used to carry a subcompact 40, but now carry a full size 9 cause I shoot it a lot better.
A 9mm is a better round than a 38 special, but a 357 mag or 45 acp is better than a 9mm. More important than that is picking a gun one shoots well. I used to carry a subcompact 40, but now carry a full size 9 cause I shoot it a lot better.
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It is possible to find a 38 spl load that outperforms a specific 9mm load but I think the best 9mm offerings penetrate more deeply and expand to greater diameter than the best 38 spl. The 9mm does better in the FBI and 4 denim protocol. I just think the 9mm is going to be more effective given the same shot placement.
I don't think the difference in recoil is so huge that someone would be able to stay on / get back on target with 38 spl but not with 9mm - although it's possible so before making a choice, go to the range and find out.
I'm not aware of any weapons that give you more than 7 rounds of 38 spl. I know the average confrontation is less than 7 rounds but I'd rather have more than less.
In 1987-ish my gf (at the time) and I tried a lot of different 9 mm autos for her, and she had trouble racking the slides on all of them. In that case you do have to move to a different caliber.
I don't think the difference in recoil is so huge that someone would be able to stay on / get back on target with 38 spl but not with 9mm - although it's possible so before making a choice, go to the range and find out.
I'm not aware of any weapons that give you more than 7 rounds of 38 spl. I know the average confrontation is less than 7 rounds but I'd rather have more than less.
In 1987-ish my gf (at the time) and I tried a lot of different 9 mm autos for her, and she had trouble racking the slides on all of them. In that case you do have to move to a different caliber.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Which one do you shoot better in your chose platform?
That's the better home defense round.
That's the better home defense round.
Ok, I prefer autos, in general, but it still goes back to the individual.
However, some people fixate on caliber, and some on capacity... Some other considerations I'll throw in, re auto vs revolver (sorry, old guys, for beating a dead horse....)
Auto
Pro:
Can have higher capacity;
Given similar power, has softer recoil due to slide reciprocation absorbing energy;
Can have SA or DA/SA for those who like that;
9mm ammo is about as cheap as decent factory SD ammo gets;
Normally has lower bore axis than revolvers, resulting in less muzzle flip;
Backstrap design can make it easy to always get same, high grip on draw.
Con:
Is it loaded? Is round chambered?
Has to be tested extensively to confirm reliability of each and every round type one might use;
Can be disabled at close quarters if BG pushes out of battery, OR if shooter pushes gun into BG at extreme close quarters;
Complex controls may pose problem for less trained shooters, especially during adrenaline dump;
Magazines are usually the weak point, but ammo that is too hot or too mild is probably a close second.
Revolver
Pro: Simple to use;
Obvious when loaded;
No magazine springs to worry about if gun left loaded for long time (note: ammo may not be good, depending on how long we are talking about...);
Will feed ANY bullet profile desired;
Much wider variety of aftermarket grip shapes available, as there is no magazine well to support;
In the event of a dud round, pulling the trigger to get to a new round is faster than even the simplest auto stoppage drill;
Will not be pushed out of battery if shoved into target (but can be disabled if BG grabs cylinder or gets thumb under hammer, if applicable; hammerless 342/442/642 are probably the hardest guns out there to disable, from the BG perspective);
Will accept any power loading legal for caliber, no slide and recoil spring, no auto-ejection to worry about;
Hammerless and shrouded-hammer types are reliable even when fired from inside a pocket, no hammer or slide movement to get snagged in fabric.
Con: Capacity ranges from 5 to 9 (if we count .22);
Many shooters are not good at DA, and cocking the hammer takes time and coordination that may not be available (note: PRACTICE DA if you use a DA revolver for SD!!!!)
No slide or recoil spring means more recoil energy transfers directly to shooter;
Higher bore axis results in more muzzle rise;
Higher bore axis can also result in more muzzle pulldown during trigger pull;
Tendency of many revolver shooters to think revolvers never fail, and hence never train to deal with problems or carry/own a backup weapon.
For the shooter who doesn't want to spend the money to verify SD ammo function, the revolver is probably better.
For the shooter who doesn't want to spend the money or time required to verify long-term reliability of magazines (hundreds of rounds through each), the revolver is probably better.
For the shooter who doesn't want to spend a lot of time practicing stoppage clearing drills, the revolver is probably better.
For the shooter who wants to be able to shoot more than one shot from a pocket, it's hard to beat the 442 and family of revolvers.
For the shooter who puts in a lot of training time, and who has the money to burn a lot of SD ammo and to run a good round count through any defensive magazines, it's hard to argue against the higher capacity and faster follow-up capability of an auto.
But .38 vs 9mm? Again, who cares?
Note: My typical carry in cold weather is an auto, IWB, and a 442 in my weak-hand coat pocket. I like both. Guess what combo my nightstand guns are...
Edit: Greg, you might want to add a third option to your poll, along the lines of "Either will do, if the shooter does his part."
However, some people fixate on caliber, and some on capacity... Some other considerations I'll throw in, re auto vs revolver (sorry, old guys, for beating a dead horse....)
Auto
Pro:
Can have higher capacity;
Given similar power, has softer recoil due to slide reciprocation absorbing energy;
Can have SA or DA/SA for those who like that;
9mm ammo is about as cheap as decent factory SD ammo gets;
Normally has lower bore axis than revolvers, resulting in less muzzle flip;
Backstrap design can make it easy to always get same, high grip on draw.
Con:
Is it loaded? Is round chambered?
Has to be tested extensively to confirm reliability of each and every round type one might use;
Can be disabled at close quarters if BG pushes out of battery, OR if shooter pushes gun into BG at extreme close quarters;
Complex controls may pose problem for less trained shooters, especially during adrenaline dump;
Magazines are usually the weak point, but ammo that is too hot or too mild is probably a close second.
Revolver
Pro: Simple to use;
Obvious when loaded;
No magazine springs to worry about if gun left loaded for long time (note: ammo may not be good, depending on how long we are talking about...);
Will feed ANY bullet profile desired;
Much wider variety of aftermarket grip shapes available, as there is no magazine well to support;
In the event of a dud round, pulling the trigger to get to a new round is faster than even the simplest auto stoppage drill;
Will not be pushed out of battery if shoved into target (but can be disabled if BG grabs cylinder or gets thumb under hammer, if applicable; hammerless 342/442/642 are probably the hardest guns out there to disable, from the BG perspective);
Will accept any power loading legal for caliber, no slide and recoil spring, no auto-ejection to worry about;
Hammerless and shrouded-hammer types are reliable even when fired from inside a pocket, no hammer or slide movement to get snagged in fabric.
Con: Capacity ranges from 5 to 9 (if we count .22);
Many shooters are not good at DA, and cocking the hammer takes time and coordination that may not be available (note: PRACTICE DA if you use a DA revolver for SD!!!!)
No slide or recoil spring means more recoil energy transfers directly to shooter;
Higher bore axis results in more muzzle rise;
Higher bore axis can also result in more muzzle pulldown during trigger pull;
Tendency of many revolver shooters to think revolvers never fail, and hence never train to deal with problems or carry/own a backup weapon.
For the shooter who doesn't want to spend the money to verify SD ammo function, the revolver is probably better.
For the shooter who doesn't want to spend the money or time required to verify long-term reliability of magazines (hundreds of rounds through each), the revolver is probably better.
For the shooter who doesn't want to spend a lot of time practicing stoppage clearing drills, the revolver is probably better.
For the shooter who wants to be able to shoot more than one shot from a pocket, it's hard to beat the 442 and family of revolvers.
For the shooter who puts in a lot of training time, and who has the money to burn a lot of SD ammo and to run a good round count through any defensive magazines, it's hard to argue against the higher capacity and faster follow-up capability of an auto.
But .38 vs 9mm? Again, who cares?
Note: My typical carry in cold weather is an auto, IWB, and a 442 in my weak-hand coat pocket. I like both. Guess what combo my nightstand guns are...
Edit: Greg, you might want to add a third option to your poll, along the lines of "Either will do, if the shooter does his part."
Accuracy?
Have you shot a 1911 at typical in-the-house ranges?
Or a Beretta 92?
Or...
My point is, for long distance accuracy, and hunting, revolvers will often have an edge. For SD? Nothing significant, if at all.
Les Baer .45, standing Chapman, 23 yards:
In fact, some people opt for small revolvers, that can be shot well, but are harder to shoot than most autos.
Overpenetration risk?
Depends on bullet construction more than caliber.
A high sectional density .38 round, with a hard bullet, at low to medium velocity will out penetrate a lower sectional density round, with a JHP, at medium high velocity.
Wadcutters get recommended quite a bit, for low recoil and better internal ballistics than round nose, but wadcutters also penetrate deeper than people seem to think.
Have you shot a 1911 at typical in-the-house ranges?
Or a Beretta 92?
Or...
My point is, for long distance accuracy, and hunting, revolvers will often have an edge. For SD? Nothing significant, if at all.
Les Baer .45, standing Chapman, 23 yards:
In fact, some people opt for small revolvers, that can be shot well, but are harder to shoot than most autos.
Overpenetration risk?
Depends on bullet construction more than caliber.
A high sectional density .38 round, with a hard bullet, at low to medium velocity will out penetrate a lower sectional density round, with a JHP, at medium high velocity.
Wadcutters get recommended quite a bit, for low recoil and better internal ballistics than round nose, but wadcutters also penetrate deeper than people seem to think.
Found this from a different site, but it will give ya a good idea what some calibers do and how they react when using them ....
http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm
http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal Ballistics as viewed in a morgue.htm
spacecoast
New member
Looks like someone had an extra cup of coffee this morning... 
Interesting morgue article too, thanks.
Interesting morgue article too, thanks.