9mm only bounces off bones but a .40 or .45 will break it? What? Huh???

brandon,
If I've got to concentrate on angles when face with a deadly threat then I'm in trouble. Like I said you can carry all the .380 you want. I too felt safe with a .380 at one time, but not after that experience. The fact is that many people die from even smaller caliber gun shot wounds than .380, but it takes longer and its not as effective at eliminating the immediate, deadly threat. That 's not rocket science, its proven. If .380 was just as potent then, 9 mm wouldn't be the cut off for effective self defense calibers. Good luck and I honestly hope that if you need to use your weapon that it gives you the results required to save your life. :)
 
I can connect better with my index finger than I can with a BB gun. That's why I ALWAYS carry my index finger.

Who cares if my finger bounces of beer bellies, I ALWAYS aim for the right eye. I practice and I have it down pat!

For those who don't think my finger is a REAL weapon, why don't you stand down range and let me poke you in your eye. Then, tell me if it's not a real weapon.
 
Furthermore, I've recently began practicing the "double-poke". I can do this faster than I can double tap with my hard kicking, jaw breaking, masochistic, 1911 .45.
 
Plus, practicing with my digits is real cheap. And I never run out of ammo. The cost of pre-ban magazines is also irrelevant.
 
Just to test the combat effectiveness of my finger, I pointed it at my eye, looked at my pretty cuticle and asked myself the simple question... ""Would I want to be in this position if I was the bad guy?" The answer was, "NO".

If you don't believe me try it yourself (without laughing).
 
Brandon sez:
a round has a 71% ACTUAL one shot stop percentage, it should be respected. The .45 Hydra-shok has a 94% one shot stop percentage, very very respectable.
Click to expand...

Brandon, you're not listening, or not thinking. As Mike stated before you posted the above:
Regression examination of their (M&S) published statistics have not been very kind to their methodology, having raised rather serious questions...
Click to expand...

Mike is being much more diplomatic than I'm about to be. Marshall and Sanow are frauds. The so called "one stop shot" data is a fabrication, an out-and-out lie. Study it a bit, and if you have three functioning brain cells, you'll see that the data does not compute.

Read some analysis:

www.firearmstactical.com/marshall-sanow-statistical-analysis.htm
www.firearmstactical.com/undeniable-evidence.htm

And more in the latter half of this page:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs31.htm

Also, see (actually, you should probably read this first):

http://greent.com/40Page/general/armchair.htm

Seems you're basing your argument on flawed data, which makes your conclusion flawed, no?

You say of those who debate:
They have no real evidence, they're getting their opinions from other's opinions, not from factual evidence...
Click to expand...

I think you've done a magnificent self-analysis there.

As for the .380 ACP round, it certainly isn't my favorite, but my current backup is a .38, and I'm considering switching to a .380. I wouldn't choose to go into harms way with a .380, but it makes a fine backup and low-danger/high concealment primary weapon.

Please read and take time to think about the information on the links I've posted. I hope you have the intellectual fortitude to question your current ideas, as they seem to be based largely on a fallacy.
 
My gun penetrated 8 inches of SOLID ROCK...from about 20 feet...and that is a fact. The holes are still there with the bullets parked in the back of each hole.
Click to expand...

Lava rock?

Certainly not Basalt.
 
When doing my range time, which is of course about twice a week, IPSC or other type of body targets are standard. I remember back when, the book that came out for us that are or where LEO's at the time called "Street Survival". I remember a picture of a perp that took 32 hits from a 9mm, he was on PCP. The 32nd hit was the stopper, it was to the head.

Many of us back then were conditioned by our depts for the standard PPC course of fire for only aiming at the body "A" zone.

Since then I have always practiced two double taps, one double tap to the "A" zone and the other double tap to the center of the head. :p
 
Brandon,

You use the .380 because you stated that you dont care for the 9mm,.40,.45 because of their recoil.

Well, for you the only choice is .380 other than going with a .22. So its clear to most here why you chose that round. If you find the 9mm recoils too much then your on the right track.

Most of us can shoot larger calibers without getting exhausted, most consider the 9mm to kick like a baby myself included. You should not expect people to recomend the .380 for a CCW peice unless of course they find the 9mm recoils too much.

In your case its the only thing for you, most other people have more options and better options. Like said above, your not going to get too many recomendations for the .380 for a carry peice.

The .380 guns are nice to slip in the pocket.

Jason
 
You people crack me up

Deer get shot with 30-06 and 270's and run away never to be found again. One time a Japanese fighter ace was shot in the head with a 30-06 and flew his plane 400 miles and landed safely and survived. Guess that means 30-06 isn't big enough!!

Yea you have to worry about angles! You think a .45 will penetrate no matter what angle it's shot at? Hello! Ever heard of richochet? (spelling?) It happens with every caliber!!
 
Guess i am missing the point here. If .380 is the biggest caliber that you are comfortable shooting, you shoot the gun well, and your experiences with it make you have confidence in it, than what is the problem???

Most people here will agree that those are the main ingredients to having good luck with a carry gun. Sounds like the right choice for you.

I prefer a gun that transfers more energy to the target (regardless if i need that increased energy or not) so i generally carry a .38spl +p or .357mag, sometimes a 9mmp and sometimes a .45 or even a .32acp depending on my clothing and the situation. Just bought a S&W pre-my-hischool-graduation 36, so i will probably load it with standard velocity Nyclads. Not much more energy than your .380, if any, but a combo that i shoot well and am comfortable with. To each their own.
 
"Penetrated 8" of solid rock."

Keep that in mind if you ever get attacked by the lava monster from Star Trek.

Where the hell are you that iron ore is used for road bases?

Where I'm from, iron ore is used to make iron.

Lime stone is used to make road bases.

This is starting to sound more and more like pure nonsense.
 
Mike

That stuff is called 'red dog" and its a low grade tailing from coal viens used in roadbeds in coal country. As a rock goes its pretty soft. Btw intentionally shooting at rocks is generally a bad idea, unless you LIKE ricochets.

I've shot so many calibers and so many handguns... which one is best? The one you shoot the best. Yeah I killed an antelope with a 380, and didn't see a single "bounce" in all my years of hunting. Still doesn't make it a good hunting round. Niether is a 9mm, a .45 or a 40. Problem is, you can't hide a 30-06 in your pocket. Handguns are a compromise. Since you can't carry a rifle you carry the biggest fastest heaviest rock you can throw accurately.

On recoil.. well if it hurts to shoot, maybe its too much gun. Maybe you aren't practicing enough. Maybe your grip is wrong. Maybe you shouldn't shoot +p++* whatever ammo and stick to standard pressure stuff. Maybe you need a different gun. There are a LOT of variables for why a handgun is making you recoil shy, but its mostly about practice. More practice = bigger heavier faster rocks more accurately.
 
Thank you rob

The only person here who is full of nonsense is people who think .380 isn't big enough. I can't conceal a .45 anywhere on me effectivly, but I don't feel at any disadvantage over someone who uses a .45.

No, I'm not holding the gun wrong. The CC instructor told me how to hold it, which is exactly what I'd been doing all along. I am a small person, so anything over 9mm has about a 100 shot limit and I'm ready to call it a day.

I enjoyed the debate. Sorry you guys couldn't come up with viable arguments as to why we should all be carrying around Raging Bulls.
 
BTW rob...

The stuff is steel core Russian ammo. I knew it wouldn't richochet. The bullet didn't even deform. It is considered armor piercing, but not legally because then it would be illegal to possess. It can pierce a pretty good chunk of iron. After all, that what the bullet is. It sticks to a magnet like glue.

The Hydra-shok went in 3 inches, and the Russian went in between 8 and 9, sometimes over 10, with no more damage than a scratch on one side. Tough stuff!
 
Brandon, you show a shocking lack of knowledge and lack of physics. What do you mean that steel core ammo that doesn't deform won't ricochet?

"It is considered armor piercing, but not legally because then it would be illegal to possess." I take it that you feel that because you have the ammo that it is therefore legal?

Pierced solid rock? Cool. What type of solid rock? Pumus, granite, limestone, jade, sandstone?

Feel free to comment all you want as you have with caliber envy. Being small is no excuse for carrying small. Ask ArmySon! He is one small dude and he carries a nice full-sized 1911 quite well.

.380 is a fine small caliber that is underpowered compared to its 9 mm long big brother. If you carry it and it makes you happy, that is fine, but don't try to argue with your alledged tests that .380 is a more substantial caliber than 9 mm long, .45, or Raging Bull calibers like .454. It won't wash.

By the way, the sentiment of your signature oriented in the right direction, but is a little misguided. The bastards that crashed the planes died in the same manner as the passengers on those planes. They are already dead and unfortunately, most died rather quickly compared to many of the people in the buildings. It is a little late to wish them a horrific death as they are already dead.
 
I can't believe that this thread is still alive.

Well this just proves the dedication that TFLer's have to the Truth. It bothers me also to see such misguided information, but your student must be willing to learn or you can't teach him anything. :mad:

Let's all do our part in killing this thread! "We are beating a dead horse!"
 
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