9mm NATO ball ammo

R

Rail Gun

New member
Is there anything equivilany in the civilian market. All the +p and +p+ rounds I've seen are those lame dum dum hollowpoints that don't penetrate enough. Are +P+ ball loads available anywhere?
 
Winchester makes a NATO headstamped 115 FMJ. Its load Q4172 in the white box.
ADDED
Winchester also makes a 124gr load, Q4318. It carries the note WARNING: These cartridges are loaded to military velocity and pressure which is higher than 9mm Luger cartridges; average pressure is 10% higher than industry standard for 9mm luger.
 
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THEY CALL ME "MAJOR NINE"

You're kidding, right?

(Do you know what +P+ stands for? "No set pressure limit"; ooh gotta love it LOL)
 
Isn't the 9mm Nato round a 124 Grain fmj loaded to +P or +P+ pressures? I know I have seen it and gun shows in the past as the earlier post noted.
 
HAVIN' A NATO BALL

+P goes to 38.5K PSI; +P+ has no standard.

The designation may be assigned regardless of pressure. Use bullet weight and measured velocity as BASIC indicator.
 
In Europe, the 9mm is loaded hotter than standard 9mm in the U.S.

9mm ammo from Fiocchi (Italy) and Geco (Germany) is available in the U.S.

http://www.fiocchiusa.com/catalog/centerfire.html

http://www.lippman-enterprises.com/ammo.html

9mm German Geco
New Commercial Ammo made by Dynamit Nobel.
Great for Sub-Guns and Glock Pistols.
124 grain, FMJ, Brass cased, Boxer Primed, Non-Corrosive.
50 Round Boxes.
1000 round Case - $115.00 each
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All figures below were from Gun Digest's
Book of 9mm Handguns. All were fired in a Beretta 92F, fired over an Oehler 33 chrono, and from a Ransom Rest. They are 20
round averages per load. Here are the results of a few:

CCI Blazer 115gr. / 1136 fps.
CCI Lawman 115gr. / 1146 fps.
Winchester 115gr. / 1086 fps.
Remington 124gr, / 1096 fps.
UMC Brand 124gr. / 1075 fps.
Federal 123gr. / 1053 fps
American Eagle 123gr. / 1042 fps.
Hornady 124gr. / 1133 fps.
Black Hills 115gr. / 1076 fps.
PMC 115gr. / 1150 fps.
Fiocchi 115gr. / 1208 fps.
Norma 115gr / 1152 fps.
GECO 123gr. / 1228 fps.
Hirtenberger 123gr. / 1156 fps.
 
Ain't nothing like facts from an authoritive source, and "Janes" is recognized as the foremost authority of data for military ordnance in the world. According to Janes:

NATO specifies a 115 grain FMJ at 1300 fps at a mean pressure of 29,158 PSI.

The USA M882 specifies a 124 grain FMJ at 1230 fps, plus or minus 50 fps.

Israel Carbine Ball plus-P is a 115 grain FMJ at 1,378 fps.

South African ball is a 117 grain FMJ at 1,316 fps.
 
Isn't it interesting how we Americans continue to push the 147 grain envelope while the Germans, who pioneered this cartridge, tend to stay with the 90-123 grain projectiles even on Sub Gun ammo?
 
9x19,

TM 43-0001-27 (ARMY AMMUNITION DATA SHEETS SMALL CALIBER AMMUNITION FSC 1305, Apr '94) is not in agreement with Janes. It has CARTRIDGE, 9 MM, BALL, NATO, M882 listed as follows:

Velocity: 1263 ± 5 fps, 15 ft from the muzzle
Case Mouth Pressure: 31,175 psi (avg), 36,250 psi (max) with a 112 grain projectile.

--
Mike
 
I'd prefer Cor-Bon's loads. They're all JHP, but I'd like them even if they were FMJ.


Caliber____Bullet______Velocity/Energy

-9mm +P__90gr JHP___1500 fps / 450 ft/lbs
-9mm +P__115gr JHP__1350 fps / 466 ft/lbs
-9mm +P__125gr JHP__1250 fps / 434 ft/lbs
 
Some time ago I made a note in my Lyman's reloading manual about 9mm pressures. I do not remember where this info was found, but here goes.
standard 9mm = 35,000psi
9mm (+P) = 38,500psi
9mm (+P+) = 40,000psi
9mm NATO = 42,000psi
 
I have no idea as to pressure but with numbers ranging from 29,000 psi to 42,000 suggested as the NATO load I'd wonder if some are not getting PSI and C.U.P. mixed up:confused:
 
9mm Luger 35,000psi (SAAMI spec.)
9mm Luger+P 38,500psi (SAAMI spec.)
9mm Luger+P+ 42,000psi (Suggested spec.)
9mm NATO probably falls somewhere between +P and +P+

As stated earlier in the thread, there is no set standard for +P+. The only pressure data I could find was for some Speer ammo that was 40,700psi.

There is a recommended +p+ standard which is 42,000 psi, but as of now, no manufacturer is required to abide by the recommended standard since SAAMI has not yet adopted it.

I would shy away from anything higher than 42,000psi unless you know for a fact that you pistol will handle it.

Glock rates their 9mm pistols to 43,500psi.

Ruger P89s are rated for NATO or CIP standards which probably puts them at the same level or a little higher.

Beretta says that their 92 series pistols will handle +P+ but note that it will shorten the life of the gun.

BTW, even standard pressure FMJ 9mm is not known for being a non-penetrating round.
 
From what I understand, 9mm FMJ in almost any loading will go clean through a human target at close range.

I can't imagine you needing any more penetration than that.
 
The Winchester and Remington +P+ ammo I have now has a warning on the box to the effect that the cartridges are loaded to 40,000 CUP.

Note that there is, at best, a poor correlation between CUP and PSI pressure measurements. (Some would say there is NO correlation.) Moreover, American SAAMI pressure measurements are done differently than European CIP pressure measurements, so those numbers aren't in one-to-one agreement, either.

The most penetrating 9mm ammo generally available would probably be NATO or IMI Carbine ball.

Be sure your pistol will handle it.
 
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