9mm Luger/parabellun

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308Loader

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Hello again everyone, I am planning to start loading for my 9mm Zastava M70a. looking for advise, I have loaded many bottlenecked cartages (.308-5.56...). this is my first try at straight wall pistol loads. I have some concerns with seating depth and belling and crimping.

is their a measurement I can use for belling the cartridge.
is their a measurement I can use to verify the crimp.

load plan is:
Case trim/max .749/.754
Rem JHP or Rem fmj 115gr bullet
Powder HS6 5.7-6.2 gr - 1000-1100 fps
primer cci small pistol #500

jhp oal 1.075
fmj oal 1.100

Any thing else I should be looking at?
 
You really don't need measurements for the two operations in question. Belling could vary slightly depending on brass thickness at the mouth. Belling for jacketed bullets would usually be slightly less than belling for lead bullets due to usual possible differences in bullet diameters. Just bell enough so that the bullet will easily sit slightly inside the case mouth and will seat without shearing the jacket material, or lead if using lead bullets. As far as crimping, the 9mm headspaces on the case mouth so you don't want to apply a roll crimp that would tend to crush the case into the bullet and possibly lose the squared away headspacing. Instead just apply enough of a taper crimp, even if using a roll crimp die, to remove the flare and maintain a square case mouth.
 
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9mm Luger is the same as 9mm Parabellum (both 9x19); Georg Luger popularized the cartridge when he necked up the 7.65 Parabellum/30 Luger to 9mm/.355, and "parabellum" ("prepare for war") was DWM's telegraph address.
 
"SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM" is Latin for, "if you wish peace, prepare for war". So Parabellum just combines the last two into a single word and might therefore be read as '9mm prepared for war'. But yes, it is the same as 9mm Luger and as 9×19 mm Parabellum.

You generally want the minimum amount of flare or belling of the case mouth that allows you to seat the bullet without the case mouth scraping along its sides. The reason for minimizing is just to stretch the brass less so it lasts longer. You could bell it more without harm, but the mouths will start splitting in fewer reloadings if you do.

The SAAMI drawing shows the Trim should be 0.744"–0.754". Most manuals will have you target the middle that range, 0.749", as your trim-to length because that gives you the most tolerance for error either side of that exact value.

The drawing shows the case mouth for the finished cartridge should have a diameter between 0.373"–0.380" (expressed as 0.380" with a tolerance of –0.007") in order to be able to headspace on the case mouth corresponding to its counterpart surface in the chamber. So, again, aiming for the middle of the range, 0.3765" would be ideal, though individual variation in trim length will keep that from being perfectly constant. Also, some brands of cases are thicker than others, and may need to be near the high end of that range if you are to avoid crushing bullets unduly with the crimp die.
 
Just read condor bravo's post #3 again.

My memory might be going a little bit (memory is the second thing to go as you age) but I seem to recall the RCBS dies came with instructions for adjusting the dies for belling and crimping.

Good luck.

P.S. If you're already loading good rifle ammunition I think you'll be surprised at how easy it can be to load straight wall handgun ammo.
 
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"Si vis pacem, para bellum." was the motto for the Deutsche Waffe und Munitionsfabriken who actually produced the 9mm Luger Round and Handgun (also called the Pistole Parabellum, later named Luger after the man who worked with it).
 
What do your loading manuals say?
Dont' trim the cases!!!!!
Increasing head space is not going to improve accuracy. In fact, the most accurate loads will be with the longest cases--that you plan to ruin.
Bottleneck case grow--straightwall cases DON'T and never need trimming.
Finally, you are shooting a gun capable of, at best, about 10 MOA, so don't use tricks designed for 0.5 MOA rifles.
The flare is sufficient if the bullet can sit on the case and not fall off. You can use more flare for lead and plated bullets and virtually no flare for jacketed bullets.
The crimp is sufficient if the round drops in the barrel and goes "Plunk."
You can look at the round against a well-lit white background and see any remaining flare.
You can run your finger down the bullet and FEEL if the flare catches your finger.
You can use a factory round to set the crimp die.
You can "measure" the case mouth diameter--SAAMI specifies 0.3800 +0.000/-0.007" for the industry, but all you need is for enough flare to be removed that your rounds chamber.
Many use 0.378-0.380" as their "crimp" target.
 
German guy's surname.
Neither flaring nor crimping requires measuring. The former is just enough to sit the bullet in. The latter is just enough to take the flare out and it's a taper crimp only. There is no 'standard' measurement for either, anyway.
SAAMI drawings are for manufacturers. Not reloaders.
"...straight wall cases DON'T and never need trimming..." Until they do, which is exceedingly rare.
 
The folks have answered your basic questions. If I can add a bit more:
If you are using this in multiple firearms, a case gauge might be a good investment. Other wise you get to take your pistols apart to plunk test your rounds. The caveat is that if you have a tight chamber in one of your guns you will need to use that. Finally, be careful if you use range brass, some guns will make the brass a little dicey to use. Good inspection is required. Good luck.

Tom
 
As always great info thanks all. followed the manufactures directions on die setup. belled just enough to set the bullet squarely into the case just I a little. crimped just a little and tried the push test with 2 dummy rounds.

loaded 50 at 5.7 gr took them to the range and they all went off without a hitch. pun intended. cases came out a little sooty and gun is dirty, any one have a 2 cents worth on that?
 
HS-6 likes pressure and usually shoots best in the upper range of the charge weight. Once you hit the sweet spot as you work up the load it's very clean and works great.
 
My reloading manuals say to use a roll crimp on 9mm so I do. The trick you will find is using a roll crimp and still being able to head space on the case mouth. The plunk test will tell you. It does not take much of a roll crimp to improve bullet performance.
 
My reloading manuals say to use a roll crimp on 9mm so I do. The trick you will find is using a roll crimp and still being able to head space on the case mouth. The plunk test will tell you. It does not take much of a roll crimp to improve bullet performance.
Click to expand...

I have to wonder what manuals you are using that tell you to do something normal 9mm die sets are not capable of. Did you by a 9mm roll crimp die or are you using one for another caliber?
 
Can I also submit that recommending the type of crimp to use is better advice for advanced loaders who have purchased the equipment to have that option? Most dies sets come with a crimp die of one type or the other, and telling a first time loader that the die that came in his new die set should be set aside, and some special purpose crimp die for special applications needs to be purchased is not particularly helpful unless he is using one of those special applications. If you are loading 9mm for a 9mm semi auto, I recommend using the crimp die that came in your 9mm die set.
 
For 9 MM it is not crimp. Just a way to remove the flare from the case mouth, and return it to the original size. I use a sized unflaired case for the set up of this step. When crimping. It is not crimping. Just making the round so that it will fit into the chamber of the weapon firing it. Also I do the fingernail test. I run my fingernail down the bullet over the case. If I feel it catch on the case mouth then I know it is not over crimped.
 
Should not use a roll crimp. 9mm headspaces off the case mouth. Over crimping may allow the case to be driven too far into the chamber which NOT GOOD.
 
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