9mm for deer
- Thread starter Spadone
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patrickt66
New member
I'm a little confused; Many posters acknowledge that a 9mm out of a carbine-length barrel is equal to a .357 and endorse the .357 as adequate for deer out of a revolver, yet condemn the 9mm as a deer round even though Spadone pointed out that the range is under 30 yards. Could someone explain this discrepancy?
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KilgorII
Guest
That's what I have been trying to point out as well. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Follow up shots, should they be needed, are going to be faster and more accurate than from a revolver as well. Thus it would seem to be a better choice.
Field-dressed
New member
Will it reliably penetrate through fur, hide and scapula and still make a clean kill? I don't know but it seems underpowered to me. No way I'd try it and around here we shoot Sitka black-tailed deer that often weigh in near 100 pounds. I don't know where you're hunting but I only hunt deer with a load capable of stopping brown bears. 
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KilgorII
Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by patrickt66:
I'm a little confused; Many posters acknowledge that a 9mm out of a carbine-length barrel is equal to a .357 and endorse the .357 as adequate for deer out of a revolver, yet condemn the 9mm as a deer round even though Spadone pointed out that the range is under 30 yards. Could someone explain this discrepancy?[/quote]
No one can answer this?
I'm a little confused; Many posters acknowledge that a 9mm out of a carbine-length barrel is equal to a .357 and endorse the .357 as adequate for deer out of a revolver, yet condemn the 9mm as a deer round even though Spadone pointed out that the range is under 30 yards. Could someone explain this discrepancy?[/quote]
No one can answer this?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KilgorII:
No one can answer this?[/quote]
Sure, I can. I just despise the 9mm Para. Just a prejudice of mine. I consider it a worthless (to me) caliber. Probably stems from my experiences with a couple of early S&W autos years ago. The 9mm was never renowned for its accuracy and I'm really fond of accurate shot placement and I consider it mandatory when hunting even the lowliest of critters. The "9" just don't cut it as far as I'm concerned. YMMV
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Just one of the Good Guys
No one can answer this?[/quote]
Sure, I can. I just despise the 9mm Para. Just a prejudice of mine. I consider it a worthless (to me) caliber. Probably stems from my experiences with a couple of early S&W autos years ago. The 9mm was never renowned for its accuracy and I'm really fond of accurate shot placement and I consider it mandatory when hunting even the lowliest of critters. The "9" just don't cut it as far as I'm concerned. YMMV
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Just one of the Good Guys
What about 7.62x25?
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
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The Alcove
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist
The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
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KilgorII
Guest
Ok, I'll go with what I was thinking. The 9mm from a carbine is a decent round for use on 100 lb. deer because it reproduces .357 mag performance. It seem no one can provide any evidense or even clear reasoning to the contrary so it must me true.
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
KilgorII--
Well, I think the 9mm is not truly equivalent to the .357. But if it were, so what? MOST .357 loads are not truly adequate for humane deer hunting. Okay, using a 14" bbl Contender hand cannon with screamin', steamin' 180 to 200 gr. loads which just happen to be packaged in .357 Mag brass, might be okay. But this is NOT the same as popping a deer with a .357 sidearm and conventional loads.
It is true that the .357 USED to be thought a sporting proposition, for deer and well beyond. This misconception was set up back in the days of S&W doing their promotional stuff, using a 8-3/8" barrel revolver with the early loads turning out an honest 1512 fps--And, while performing for the cameras, the company shooters had a good guide with a heavy rifle backing him up.
As said earlier--If my family or I were hungry and there was game afoot, and I had ALMOST any firearm, we would dine on venison. But survival/subsistence protein gathering is NOT sport hunting.
This is like a lot of things in this world. Just because it CAN be done doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. Please, friends, let's keep the SPORT in sport hunting.
Best regards,
Johnny
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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
Well, I think the 9mm is not truly equivalent to the .357. But if it were, so what? MOST .357 loads are not truly adequate for humane deer hunting. Okay, using a 14" bbl Contender hand cannon with screamin', steamin' 180 to 200 gr. loads which just happen to be packaged in .357 Mag brass, might be okay. But this is NOT the same as popping a deer with a .357 sidearm and conventional loads.
It is true that the .357 USED to be thought a sporting proposition, for deer and well beyond. This misconception was set up back in the days of S&W doing their promotional stuff, using a 8-3/8" barrel revolver with the early loads turning out an honest 1512 fps--And, while performing for the cameras, the company shooters had a good guide with a heavy rifle backing him up.
As said earlier--If my family or I were hungry and there was game afoot, and I had ALMOST any firearm, we would dine on venison. But survival/subsistence protein gathering is NOT sport hunting.
This is like a lot of things in this world. Just because it CAN be done doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. Please, friends, let's keep the SPORT in sport hunting.
Best regards,
Johnny
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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Going along with Johnny's comments: You *always* have to play the what-ifs. I've had deer take a step just as I was about to touch off a neck shot. Wound up with a shoulder hit, middle of the lungs above the heart.
With my '06, no problem. Deer fell in its tracks and stayed there.
A 9mm? Well, just how good *are* you on that "quick, follow-up shot"? If you're not expecting to have to take that second shot, you're reasonably likely to make a gut shot--"shoot at the brown mass".
Got a tracking dog? You a good tracker? Got new batteries in your flashlight? Do you carry a flashlight in the late afternoon? You can be out there all night, on a several-mile chase...
The issue ain't, "Will a 9mm kill a deer?" The issue is, "Will a bad hit drop him so you can for-sure put the killing shot into him?" What's important is "for-sure". Clean kill.
For most pistol cartridges, the answer is "NO!"
Survival food is a whole 'nother story. I'll use anything--.22 rimfire on up, and shoot a fawn as quick as a grownup doe or buck. Up close and in the head.
FWIW, Art
With my '06, no problem. Deer fell in its tracks and stayed there.
A 9mm? Well, just how good *are* you on that "quick, follow-up shot"? If you're not expecting to have to take that second shot, you're reasonably likely to make a gut shot--"shoot at the brown mass".
Got a tracking dog? You a good tracker? Got new batteries in your flashlight? Do you carry a flashlight in the late afternoon? You can be out there all night, on a several-mile chase...
The issue ain't, "Will a 9mm kill a deer?" The issue is, "Will a bad hit drop him so you can for-sure put the killing shot into him?" What's important is "for-sure". Clean kill.
For most pistol cartridges, the answer is "NO!"
Survival food is a whole 'nother story. I'll use anything--.22 rimfire on up, and shoot a fawn as quick as a grownup doe or buck. Up close and in the head.
FWIW, Art
BadMedicine
Moderator
I hear fawns are awwwwful tender this time o' year Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
That's called, "Camp meat", Bad Medicine. A spike buck, shot in the neck. Provides butterflied backstrap, rolled in cornmeal and egg and fried, for breakfast...along with three or four eggs, biscuits and gravy and Camp Coffee. THEN you head out to hunt!
, Art
, Art<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KilgorII:
No one can answer this?
[/quote]
Bullet construction isn't the same for 9mm bullets vs 357 bullets, even if bullet wts are similar. Because 9mm bullets are designed for lower velocity than similar wt 357 bullet. Though the external ballistics of the 9mm in a carbine might match a 357 pistol the bullets performance when it hits a target will be different because of the difference in bullet construction. An expanding [ie HP bullet] 9mm bullet from a carbine will probably expand more and penetrate less from a carbine than from a handgun. If you can find a bullet that give modest expansion and a lot of penetration from your 9mm carbine then I might say go ahead and try it. As long as you restrict yourself on target angle and etc.
Last deer season I had my 357 loaded with Fed 180 grain castcores along in case I got a real close shot on a deer [didn't get my 44 till after deer season]. But I was carrying my 12 gauge as primary [where I hunt shotguns or handguns are legal but rifles are not]. IMHO the 357 is a marginal cartridge for deer, but I had it along with me on that hunt just in case I had a real close shot, or for finishing shot if needed.
No one can answer this?
[/quote]
Bullet construction isn't the same for 9mm bullets vs 357 bullets, even if bullet wts are similar. Because 9mm bullets are designed for lower velocity than similar wt 357 bullet. Though the external ballistics of the 9mm in a carbine might match a 357 pistol the bullets performance when it hits a target will be different because of the difference in bullet construction. An expanding [ie HP bullet] 9mm bullet from a carbine will probably expand more and penetrate less from a carbine than from a handgun. If you can find a bullet that give modest expansion and a lot of penetration from your 9mm carbine then I might say go ahead and try it. As long as you restrict yourself on target angle and etc.
Last deer season I had my 357 loaded with Fed 180 grain castcores along in case I got a real close shot on a deer [didn't get my 44 till after deer season]. But I was carrying my 12 gauge as primary [where I hunt shotguns or handguns are legal but rifles are not]. IMHO the 357 is a marginal cartridge for deer, but I had it along with me on that hunt just in case I had a real close shot, or for finishing shot if needed.
Keith Rogan
New member
>>>>I'm a little confused; Many posters acknowledge that a 9mm out of a carbine-length barrel is equal to a .357 and endorse the .357 as adequate for deer out of a revolver, yet condemn the 9mm as a deer round even though Spadone pointed out that the range is under 30 yards. Could someone explain this discrepancy?<<<<<<
With the .357 you're going to use a 180-200 grain cast bullet with enough momentum to EXIT and leave a blood trail (at least on a light deer), that's a DEER LOAD.
There is no comparable load in 9mm. Will a 9mm hollowpoint kill a deer? I think it will. Will you find the deer? Maybe... sometimes.
Any load from any caliber should exit the game being shot. If it doesn't exit, it shouldn't be used.
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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
With the .357 you're going to use a 180-200 grain cast bullet with enough momentum to EXIT and leave a blood trail (at least on a light deer), that's a DEER LOAD.
There is no comparable load in 9mm. Will a 9mm hollowpoint kill a deer? I think it will. Will you find the deer? Maybe... sometimes.
Any load from any caliber should exit the game being shot. If it doesn't exit, it shouldn't be used.
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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
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KilgorII
Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glamdring:
Bullet construction isn't the same for 9mm bullets vs 357 bullets, even if bullet wts are similar. Because 9mm bullets are designed for lower velocity than similar wt 357 bullet. Though the external ballistics of the 9mm in a carbine might match a 357 pistol the bullets performance when it hits a target will be different because of the difference in bullet construction. An expanding [ie HP bullet] 9mm bullet from a carbine will probably expand more and penetrate less from a carbine than from a handgun.[/quote]
Thank you. I do not own a 9mm carbine. I just didn't understand why the .357 mag from a revolver was ok, but the 9mm from a carbine wasn't. The only deer I've killed was with a 12 gauge last season. I may hunt with the .308 this season, but probably not as it's about a 12 pound rig. I think I'll go with the shotgun.
BTW, how do you guys feel about a 10mm from a 6" hunting barrel with 200 grain Corbon penetrators? Kept within a reasonable distance of course.
Bullet construction isn't the same for 9mm bullets vs 357 bullets, even if bullet wts are similar. Because 9mm bullets are designed for lower velocity than similar wt 357 bullet. Though the external ballistics of the 9mm in a carbine might match a 357 pistol the bullets performance when it hits a target will be different because of the difference in bullet construction. An expanding [ie HP bullet] 9mm bullet from a carbine will probably expand more and penetrate less from a carbine than from a handgun.[/quote]
Thank you. I do not own a 9mm carbine. I just didn't understand why the .357 mag from a revolver was ok, but the 9mm from a carbine wasn't. The only deer I've killed was with a 12 gauge last season. I may hunt with the .308 this season, but probably not as it's about a 12 pound rig. I think I'll go with the shotgun.
BTW, how do you guys feel about a 10mm from a 6" hunting barrel with 200 grain Corbon penetrators? Kept within a reasonable distance of course.