Model12Win said:
There is a 9mm bolt action rifle available. It's a conversion, and it isn't cheap. However, if you want a bolt action 9mm there is one to be had.
Last edited:
9MM Carbine
- Thread starter pwillie
- Start date
There is a 9mm bolt action rifle available. It's a conversion, and it isn't cheap. However, if you want a bolt action 9mm there is one to be had.
Model12Win
Moderator
Or a Destroyer carbine. 
I wish Armscor would just make there little rifle in 9mm from the factory instead of having to get it converted. I'm aware of the outfit that does the conversions, and my God are they pricey.
I've bothered Armscor/RIA about releasing it in 9mm, with no response. You'd think they'd be able to sell more of them in 9mm than in there proprietary .22 TCM round. The only thing they'd need to change is the barrel as far as I know, since .22 TCM uses 9mm as it's parent case.
I wish Armscor would just make there little rifle in 9mm from the factory instead of having to get it converted. I'm aware of the outfit that does the conversions, and my God are they pricey.
I've bothered Armscor/RIA about releasing it in 9mm, with no response. You'd think they'd be able to sell more of them in 9mm than in there proprietary .22 TCM round. The only thing they'd need to change is the barrel as far as I know, since .22 TCM uses 9mm as it's parent case.
Old Bill Dibble
New member
I kind of like the AR's. But if you are going to get an AR you may as well get one in a rifle caliber.
Years ago I bought a HiPoint Carbine for HD (during ban years). I have since phased is out for that purpose. Other than a few collector pieces it is my least used gun. I am kind of left scratching my head as to what the point is for it these days.
To each his own though.
Years ago I bought a HiPoint Carbine for HD (during ban years). I have since phased is out for that purpose. Other than a few collector pieces it is my least used gun. I am kind of left scratching my head as to what the point is for it these days.
To each his own though.
Model12Win
Moderator
We need someone to make a FACTORY 9mm bolt-action carbine.
My vote is for CZ. One based off their 452 series guns should work, maybe with a larger ring receiver.
With a threaded 16.5" barrel, good iron sights, and the ability to take Glock mags, I think it would make a great small game getter or the ability to defeat yotes out to 200 yards or better.
My vote is for CZ. One based off their 452 series guns should work, maybe with a larger ring receiver.
With a threaded 16.5" barrel, good iron sights, and the ability to take Glock mags, I think it would make a great small game getter or the ability to defeat yotes out to 200 yards or better.
Just what kind of speed do you think you'll get from a 16.5" 9mm Luger barrel?
Point#1: 9mm bullets are notoriously poor performers on small game. Essentially all act like FMJ RN. In a bolt gun, you might get decent feeding from a SWC shape, but a Keith style slug is not commonly found in 9mm.
Point#2: Drop at range. Which the hottest sane loadings, you are likely going to get something like 1700fps with the lightest slugs, less with heavier ones.
A 35cal 125gr slug, moving at 1600fps at the muzzle will drop (from a 50yrd zero) over 32 inches at 200yds., and have a whopping 250ft/lbs of energy.
That may be enough to defeat yotes, but that much drop will make it tough to HIT them.
Model12Win
Moderator
44 AMP, you are right.
But it would still be cool to have a bolt-action 9x19mm carbine FOR ME. Not saying it's everyone's cup of tea. Also i find it very hard to believe that a light fast 115 grain hollow point at +P+ velocities would not be effective for small game. No Keith bullets needed.
But it would still be cool to have a bolt-action 9x19mm carbine FOR ME. Not saying it's everyone's cup of tea. Also i find it very hard to believe that a light fast 115 grain hollow point at +P+ velocities would not be effective for small game. No Keith bullets needed.
Am not denying it should be a neat little gun, and fun to shoot. It's just for the purposes described, there are better, more effective/efficient rounds and rifles already out there.
Effective? Of course they will work, its just they are not AS efficient as you would expect. It is not JUST a matter of velocity. Or, at least not any velocity the 9mm can achieve.
The issue is the chosen target medium (small game) and the standard bullet construction of the 9mm Luger (optimized for use on humans). SMALL game (meaning coyote size and smaller) simply do not have the body mass or bone structure to reliably allow regular JHPs to expand, The 115gr HP +p+ that meets FBI standards etc. zips through small game without really noticing it is there.
And, when they don't expand, the RN profile used for good feeding in semi autos is the least effective bullet design, in terms of transmitting energy. The sharp shoulder of a (Keith style) SWC does a better job at "shocking" small game than a RN. THis is an observed effect, observed for generations now, but not something easily quantified to fit in a computer model. Note that the SWC shape does not guarantee success, only that it seems to work a bit better than a RN.
IF you had a specficially made "varmint" bullet for the 9mm, it would perform better, but as far as I know, such a bullet is not commercially made.
My point is, on small critters, (60lbs and under) varmints, pests, and food for the pot, a 9mm JHP is going to work just like a 9mm FMJ and using JHPs for rabbits, raccoons, skunks, etc simply spends money without significant benefits.
Bullet placement is what matters, yes, we say it all the time, but it really, really matters. SO does proper bullet construction, for the intended game.
I saw a fellow put 3 rounds of .357 158gr Win Luballoy SWC, from a Marlin carbine into a skunk. His aim was poor, and all three went in aft of the diaphragm, the first two having no visible effect, the third breaking the spine, taking out the back legs. At that point, the fellow asked me to finish the animal, which I did with a single .45Colt 250gr SWC to the head (I used the .45 because that is what I was wearing at the time. Otherwise, I would have gotten a .22)
He used the wrong bullet for the game, and he shot poorly. .357 Mag from a carbine, vs a skunk. NOT a matter of power, one of shot placement, again proving that what is not as important as where...
Effective? Of course they will work, its just they are not AS efficient as you would expect. It is not JUST a matter of velocity. Or, at least not any velocity the 9mm can achieve.
The issue is the chosen target medium (small game) and the standard bullet construction of the 9mm Luger (optimized for use on humans). SMALL game (meaning coyote size and smaller) simply do not have the body mass or bone structure to reliably allow regular JHPs to expand, The 115gr HP +p+ that meets FBI standards etc. zips through small game without really noticing it is there.
And, when they don't expand, the RN profile used for good feeding in semi autos is the least effective bullet design, in terms of transmitting energy. The sharp shoulder of a (Keith style) SWC does a better job at "shocking" small game than a RN. THis is an observed effect, observed for generations now, but not something easily quantified to fit in a computer model. Note that the SWC shape does not guarantee success, only that it seems to work a bit better than a RN.
IF you had a specficially made "varmint" bullet for the 9mm, it would perform better, but as far as I know, such a bullet is not commercially made.
My point is, on small critters, (60lbs and under) varmints, pests, and food for the pot, a 9mm JHP is going to work just like a 9mm FMJ and using JHPs for rabbits, raccoons, skunks, etc simply spends money without significant benefits.
Bullet placement is what matters, yes, we say it all the time, but it really, really matters. SO does proper bullet construction, for the intended game.
I saw a fellow put 3 rounds of .357 158gr Win Luballoy SWC, from a Marlin carbine into a skunk. His aim was poor, and all three went in aft of the diaphragm, the first two having no visible effect, the third breaking the spine, taking out the back legs. At that point, the fellow asked me to finish the animal, which I did with a single .45Colt 250gr SWC to the head (I used the .45 because that is what I was wearing at the time. Otherwise, I would have gotten a .22)
He used the wrong bullet for the game, and he shot poorly. .357 Mag from a carbine, vs a skunk. NOT a matter of power, one of shot placement, again proving that what is not as important as where...
Model12Win
Moderator
You are right 44 AMP. It's not optimized for that task as you pointed out.
It would still be fun for plinking though.
It would still be fun for plinking though.
madmo44mag
New member
I use to own the Marlin 9mm camp carbine and sold it.
That sale I still regret but it funded another project.
I'm looking at the Hi-Point carbine but 1st need to finish another AR build before I buy one.
A 9mm carbine is just a fun plinker of a gun.
Good for rabbits and small game under 15 lbs out to 75 yards.
But just fun gun to shoot and cheap enough that you don't feel bad about burning through 300 rounds in an afternoon.
That sale I still regret but it funded another project.
I'm looking at the Hi-Point carbine but 1st need to finish another AR build before I buy one.
A 9mm carbine is just a fun plinker of a gun.
Good for rabbits and small game under 15 lbs out to 75 yards.
But just fun gun to shoot and cheap enough that you don't feel bad about burning through 300 rounds in an afternoon.
KelTec at the low end, AR9 at the high end.
Having gone through and shot and worked on a dozen different variants, the only one I wish I had not sold is the Marlin Camp 9, but the KT and an AR9 are, to me better utility choices.
The trigger and sight on the KT are rough, but for about $200, you can upgrade to a really nice and functional set up. $200 into a $400 gun?
An AR9 allows the most options and build to suit. I use a QC10 lower (GSF), JP bolt and Faxon barrels. Those are the best IMHO, the rest is whatever you like in an AR15.
Having gone through and shot and worked on a dozen different variants, the only one I wish I had not sold is the Marlin Camp 9, but the KT and an AR9 are, to me better utility choices.
The trigger and sight on the KT are rough, but for about $200, you can upgrade to a really nice and functional set up. $200 into a $400 gun?
An AR9 allows the most options and build to suit. I use a QC10 lower (GSF), JP bolt and Faxon barrels. Those are the best IMHO, the rest is whatever you like in an AR15.