9mm Bolt Action?

M

Model12Win

Moderator
Hello all!

I love the idea of the Destroyer carbine:

Spanish_Destroyer_Carbine_1772.jpg


It is a small bolt action rifle chambered in the 9x23mm Largo cartridge, very similar in power to the 9x19mm Parabellum. These guns were used by the Spanish police from the '30s up into the late '60s.

I think this is just such a neat concept, and while I wouldn't be too hot using this thing as my patrol rifle, I'd think a small 9mm bolt action carbine would just be a hoot and a half! With today's prices of .22 LR ammunition, I've seen online where 9mm can be had for not too much more. I can imagine this style of gun being a very effective small game gun, and just tons of fun to plink with as 9mm ammunition being so plentiful and affordable (at least compared to other calibers).

I'd love to see a company, maybe one like CZ, offer a 9mm carbine with a nice wood stock and able to take maybe CZ-75 magazines. I'd think something like the CZ-527 scaled down to the pistol cartridge would just be so cool. Or heck, just bring out a clone of the Destroyer carbine but chambered in 9mm Parabellum and able to take a common 9mm pistol magazine.

Yes, I know there are semi-auto guns like the Kel Tec and Hi Point, but there is just something special about a traditional bolt gun and one could be made so small and short, with such a short bolt throw, that it would be marvelous.

Maybe I'm unique, would you guys like to see a company offer this type firearm? I know I would!
 
I have a lot of fun throwing bullets 50-100-150-200 yards down the rifle range at hanging steel plates. I have 4, 6, 8 and 12" diameter plates.

A bolt action 9mm rifle would be a "must buy" for me assuming I could accept the price. It is the sole reason I am interested in the Ruger 77/357 rifle... but at over $600, Ruger can keep it.
 
get's brought up here a few times a year. Most people will point out it's lack of viability in the market, and I totally agree. 9mm, although cheap plinking fun, is not outstanding past 50 yards in terms of accuracy no matter what rifle is shooting it. Since I, like many and maybe most, have several firearms chambered in 9mm, so any different platform in the aenemic round would be a pleasure for me to own... I fear for most people, 9mm is thought as pistol only caliber and some see it as, at the very most, only a CQB caiber at best. I have a hard time finding a role, other than being interesting, for a bolt 9mm. What can you hunt within a 50yard distance that would need silencing? as silencing would be the only REAL benefit to a bolt 9x19 IMO. Now.....all that said, if they get a reliable rimless lever-action, I would be all over it in 9mm, that'd be fun and tactfully useful and not to mention quiet on it's own. I dunno, I guess it probably wouldn't take a whole lot of different tooling to maybe turn the the Ruger 77 into a 9mm, as my far as my mind could see it, but I just don't see but a few hard-core 9mm lovers and possibly some people that live on a farm buying into the concept, especialy with SO MANY 9mm semi-auto carbine options. it would be a fun toy, and a great rifle to teach your kids on, but past that I just can't see the uses. maybe some folks can chime in and tell me why they would prefer it to, lets say a hi-point 995, beretta CX4 carbine, Taurus CTG29/CT9(already discontinued after a couple short years, despite being the best of the bunch, I assume due to high price), AK9 and the very affordable, available and most accurate of them all...just a plain ol AR15 with a simple conversion that'll run you 400$ for a complete upper and a cheap mag block(or under 600 for a dedicated build). Again, I would find a fair priced, 9mm bolt-action hard to pass up, but I don't think many others would unless there was something really special about it. even in a simple bolt action, your going to have a difficult time beating the portability and lightweight of a kel-tec SUB2K and unless your a caster/reloader and could make your single shot accurate to 100yards it ain't gonna sell. the 77 sells because regardless that the 38spl isn't a great long-range cartridge, the .357 is awesome at mid-ranges and caable of hunting as well, and it's a lot of un banging steel with a 38/357 at 100yards plus, and the versatility of the 38/357cases in a stronger action is a very desirable undertaking for us casters/reloaders, not very much versatility in the little 9mm case.

if they market one especially for youth training and they might could have a somewhat "okay" seller, I mean we do still see the circuit judges and other odd-ball "kid-friendly" rifles gracing the shelves of Walmart. Actually, that'd be an easy switch right there, circuit judge would be super easy to build in a 9mm cabiler and be about as close to your dream as a new 9mm bolt as you would probably get.

we have 3 9x19 carbines, so I love the cartridge and think it has merit as a cqb/hd/plinking, but also the joy of cheap ammo, but even though for me a bolt would be cool, it had better be cheap(I mean like under 350) or make my 9mm bullets shoot like magic, or even I would probably pass in the end
 
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Skizzums check out YouTube and search for jerry miculek 9mm 1000 if you think 9mm is not accurate past 50. :-)). I have not done much shooting w a 9mm at hundred but I have shot plenty of 45acp and 357 offhand and rested at 100 and can't see any reason a 9 would be less than capable of at least 4-6" groups at 100. Not great accuracy by rifle standards but reasonable IMO for the cartridge and plinking. My marlin 357 lever is capable of 3-4" groups at 100 with irons. 9mm may be capable of the same. Though I do agree there may not be much of a market for it.
 
Now. There aught to be be a way to convert your 2A1 to 9mm, that would make any Bubba proud.

I can sorta imagine a Tube Rose snuff can as a mag stop , bullets should swage if materials really aren't an issue.

Opps! Sorry to jumps threads.;)
 
I agree it is capable of 4"-5" at 100 yards. .....so what's that supposed to mean? that it's about one of the least accurate bolt guns I have ever seen?
 
A 9mm, .38 special, or .22 magnum would shine in an ultra-light rifle, and I do mean ultra, as in sub-3.5 lbs, and preferably sub-3.0 lbs. Think backpack rifle... that means it would have to be a single shot in all likelihood (could be a single shot bolt or break action).

Beyond that, it's neat, but with no real market or raison d'etre, it'd have to be a custom project that you really wanted to do just for fun.
 
No doubt it would be one of the least accurate bolt guns. However, most bolt guns (22lr aside) are intended for distances further than 100 yards. So a 2" gun at 100 would be effectively a 4" gun at 200 which may be the max effective range for that caliber (say 22 hornet). A 9mm max effective range would be no more than 100yds. So I'd see it as relatively equivalent in that regard. I have no used for this other than plinking. You could probably get 4" groups maybe 3".
 
...which would be a -HEAP- of fun for plinking steel at the rifle range. Cheap, easy, enjoyable fun.

In my opinion...
TENFOLD (or twenty fold) any amount of fun that one could possibly squeeze from a Mosin-Nagant and every inch of associated nonsense that accompanies playing with those relics. And for the record, I would also much, MUCH rather have a 9x19 chambered bolt action rifle than any SKS or AK-47 or AK-74 or any of the clones thereof.

Viable in the market?
Pffft, no. There is far too much money to be made building and selling (YET ANOTHER) 1911 pistol or AR-15 of some such kind. But here in these forums, most of the conversations take place among enthusiasts and tinkerers. Folks who live the hobby. In other words... not at all the kinds of folks that will make millions of dollars of sales for (yet another) 1911 or AR-15 or Glock.

So yeah... to the subject. Definitely a neat idea and I would have a lot of fun with it. But in the real world, new products will be more plastic and aluminum and plastic and aluminum and pink digital camouflage before we see a 9x19 bolt gun. Bummer, but the real world products don't come from enthusiasts and built for enthusiasts. They are brought out by businessmen who want to profit from their investment and venture.
 
Don't forget businesswomen as well.....thank geez your not a politician, you'd be slandered as a main contributer to the patriarchy.
 
You could get that destroyer and shorten the chamber, tune the extractor and likely use it in 9x19. I have also seen Largo at a fair price and it feels like it is a much "hotter" than Largo. Maybe someone else could chime in on similarity between the two. I own both, but to be honest I have never compared one to the other.
 
Sevens, I feel ya, but a semi-auto 9mm carbine (preferably SBR) is even more fun (arguably), and is reasonably cheap relative to essentially-non-existent manual-repeater 9mm carbine or rifle, at least in regular, non-SBR format.

That's why I say, if you're going to custom build something like this, make it a single shot and ULTRA light - then it's just as fast as you need it to be, for this fun purpose, relative to a manual repeater, but then it has two uses - fun range toy, and survival / backpack rifle. Although I dunno, maybe it would be much more expensive to custom build an ultra light than say, a manual repeater from a micro-mauser, CZ 527, and the like, so there's that, too.

If the new Chiappa survival rifles weren't so danged cheaply built, it might be worthwhile to see about re-barreling the .410-on-top one to 9x19 (or better yet, .38 special - lower pressure and larger meplat and cheaper), then replacing the rimfire barrel with either nothing or a strictly-storage magazine tube for ammo. Just throwing crazy stuff out there...

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/products/166
 
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The Destroyer was also available in 9x19 Parabellum.

I bought one through Shotgun News in the 80s and found it to be very crudely made, so I dumped it.
 
I have also seen them advertised as being 9mm, but sometimes people listing things incorrectly out of ignorance, so i can't personally confirm that.

"If a rifle of this sort (9mm bolt action) interest the American shooting public it would be made. But as you can see it doesn't."
If a polymer revolver...
I expect to see a lot of oddball stuff over the next few years if there are no new panics. Everyone has a 1911 and an AR(except me). Most companies have expanded their capacity. They need to fill niches if they want to keep selling.
 
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I saw a post about a 22 tcm rifle being offered by a 3 rd party vendor, who also made one with a cage for the supressor, and a integrally suppressed one.
Kind of cool looking, like a mini de lisle carbine.
 
WAIT... you guys mean to tell me someone has a new 1911 out??? What caliber? Is it .45??? What about a new AR?? Will it be a .223??? GOD I SURE HOPE SO!!!! :p

Yeah... I fall into the "diffurnt" category when it comes to liking guns. I had the opportunity to buy a Destroyer on Gunbroker last night. It took every last ounce of willpower to not go for it. Being in 9mm Largo, I'd have to reload for it to shoot it as much as I'd want to. I don't reload, but I've seen those little handheld reloading tool things and they seem super easy and fun to use.

I would absolutely LOVE it if someone made a modernized Destroyer in 9mm Parabellum... that's all I'm saying guys. You can wish me death, or call be mental, but I just can't get this idea out of my head...
 
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