9mm ammo recommendations:

Velocity IS important for expansion. In 9mm, for defense, I would shoot the hottest loads you and your gun could handle.
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Velocity WAS important for expansion -- of poorly designed bullets. Modern medium-heavy weight bullets expand more reliably and more consistently than most high velocity, light weight bullets. They demonstrate more consistent expansion and penetration in bare gelatin, denim covered gelatin and in actual shootings. The key to reliable, consistent expansion is good bullet design, not velocity.
 
>>They demonstrate more consistent expansion and penetration
>>in bare gelatin, denim covered gelatin and in actual shootings

The only thing that matters in this argument is actual shootings, right? Let me modify my position a tad. Within reason, throw the medium to heaviest rounds at your opponent at the fastest speed. There is no substitute for velocity. Good design hollowpoints fail all the time. There is no perfect round for expansion as well as penetration. I'll take penetration any day of the week.

justinr1
 
Any reason you've already stated a preference for 124gr over 115gr, and decided against 147gr? Sounds like you're already on the road to a selection ... which is what you want, and your choice, after all.

That being said ... After seeing & learning the results of gelatin testing hosted by a couple of major manufacturers, as well as reading of numerous tests by the IWBA and other interested folks that are biased to plain results versus hype and sales pitches ...

Please forgive the all-caps words that follow, because I'm really not doing it to be annoying, but ...

What functions best in YOUR weapons? Pistols are machines, after all. Sometimes variance of tolerance and function exists, whether we like it or not.

What are the cost restrictions on YOUR practice versus duty/carry ammunition considerations?

What do you want YOUR ammunition to do in YOUR weapons in situations YOU anticipate YOU might encounter??

Some folks don't want their rounds to penetrate more than 10", some want a minimum of 12", some don't care how far they penetrate, or over-penetrate (remember something's behind your intended target, even if you can't see it, but that's another issue), and some want their rounds to perform in an "ideal" manner in every medium from marshmellow to steel. The circumstances involved in L/E shooting situations can differ quite a bit from civilian self defense shootings.

When it comes to bullet performance (setting aside shooter performance for the moment) I personally prefer the Winchester Ranger T loads in 127gr +P+ ... and yes, it's restricted by Winchester's choice to L/E sales, but it's out there nonetheless ... but then again, in some gelatin testing the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P and the Remington Golden Saber 124gr +P performed just about as well, depending on what task you set for the rounds, and these rounds aren't restricted by the manufacturers. Even the standard pressure versions did "fine", and if a little more penetration is important to you, the lower velocity loadings sometimes seem to penetrate a little farther (the trade off to a little less expansion). And believe it or not, the Winchester Ranger T load 147gr was right up there with the 127gr +P+ round ... and this was from barrel lengths ranging from 3"- 3 1/2"- 4". Modern engineering & computer design is a wonderful thing ...

Invest some money & time to test fire different ammunition and determine any "preferences" demonstrated by your weapons, and by you. Magic bullets aren't ... magic or real.

Don't forget why we're having this conversation, either ...

While there are many unknowns regarding the psychological reasons for physical incapacitation after suffering a bullet wound, most "authorities" have reached similar conclusions when it comes to the physiological conditions that can cause physical incapacitation after a bullet wound ... blood loss, leading to unconsciousness ... and central nervous system disruption.

I'd be more concerned about the "quality control" of the rounds you shoot & carry, conditions of storage and carry (heat, dampness, excessive exposure to penetrating lubricants, over-pressure potential from rechambering the same round repeatedly and driving it back into the case), and the condition and maintenance of your weapon ... that sort of thing ...

Sorry if I got a little off the subject ... It's not a sensitive issue I hear a lot ... honest.

Get out there and practice, practice, practice ... properly.
 
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I used to use Ga Arms 124 gr. +P, but recently switched back to Federal Hydra-shock 135gr. I was at the range and had been practicing with the GA Arms ammo, when I decided to use up a few of the Hydras that I had left over. Much more controllable. Only beef is that it does give a bit more muzzle flash.

Don't get me wrong, the GA Arms stuff is great, and I'll still be buying their hardball for practice (very inexpensive at shows). Actually, I'll probably buy some of their standard pressure 124s at the next show and see how they stack up. If they are as controllable as the Hydras with less muzzle flash.....
 
Within reason, throw the medium to heaviest rounds at your opponent at the fastest speed. There is no substitute for velocity. Good design hollowpoints fail all the time. There is no perfect round for expansion as well as penetration.
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And you can quite easily end up with over-expansion, under-penetration, fragmentation and a smaller diameter expanded bullet. Well engineered JHPs are designed to function within a velocity window. Fail to achieve design velocity or exceed design velocity will affect the bullet's terminal performance characteristics -- more often producing inferior than superior results.

Bullets that meet the IWBA Handgun Ammunition Specification, 12.5-14 inches in bare gelatin and 13-16 inches in denim covered gelatin, perform very well -- about as reliable and consistent as is possible.
 
It's your butt "Cochese" but my sugestion is the Winchester 147 talon round, it has very good expansion and penetration and it won't beat your gun to death. The 115 is way too light. Havn't we learned anything from past gunfights.
 
It's your butt "Cochese" but my sugestion is the Winchester 147 talon round, it has very good expansion and penetration and it won't beat your gun to death. The 115 is way too light. Havn't we learned anything from past gunfights
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Some of us have...obviously at least one of us hasn't...
 
Sundance I detect some type of anger in your reply. If you knew the answer all along then, why did you ask? I just gave you what I believe to be the correct ammo for your gun. You asked eveyone for their choices, but you won't listen to the answers that many have given you. I was not the only reply for the 147 ammo on the question. Use what you feel is the best since you already have made your mind up.
 
cocojo,

Quit trying to pick a fight...

I said up front that I wasn't interested in a 147 grain, and I am not interested in debating it. It has been debated to death. You like the 147 grain...fine. I prefer the 115 or 124...my choice. I am just trying to select a particular 115 or 124. If you read my first post, you knew this up front. So quit trying to start an argument. It wasn't what you said in your post, it was how you said it. And it was complete B.S.

And as to detecting anger in my reply...Did you use the force to do that Jedi?
 
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