9mm 1911. What do you all say?

Jim Watson: said:
But they do. It is kind of a narrow niche, the CMP Excellence In Competition match for service pistols. It used to be just 1911s, then they admitted the Beretta, now it seems like about anything will fly.
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Based on this “narrow niche” of bullseye competition I guess I stand corrected. The competitive bullseye shooter I once knew had a .38 Spl. WC S&W Model 52-2 comp gun worked over by EGW back when they still built & worked on guns, and with this he sure didn’t need or want a 9mm.
 
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If you want a 1911 ... get one in 45 acp , the way John Browning designed it and intended it to be .
If you want a 9mm Luger get a Browning High Power , the way John Browning designed it and intended it to be .
Things just work better as they were intended to be used .
Gary
 
Except I like 1911s in 9mm and the Staccato I have seems to work well enough. I don’t really like the Hi Power, as sacrilegious as it may be to say that.
 
Sacrilege IMHO. But beyond that, I have been able to shoot a few over the years, all of which have been fickly both with ammo and magazines. Unless it was the ONLY option I had, I would not touch one.
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I think you need to expand your horizons. They work great these days.

I own quite a few and never had an issue with any of them. That being said, I don’t buy crap 1911’s.
 
Some of you guys are clueless. If you truly think a Browning Hi Power will out shoot and/or be more durable than a good 9mm 1911, then you seriously need an education or wake up call.

The two platforms aren’t even in the same stratosphere. Regardless of how they were intended a century ago. The 1911 was designed around the 45 because that was the stipulation of the trial, not because it couldn’t work with other cartridges.
 
bac1023 said:
Regardless of how they were intended a century ago. The 1911 was designed around the 45 because that was the stipulation of the trial, not because it couldn’t work with other cartridges.
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The fact that the 1911 was designed around a .45 caliber cartridge because that was a stipulation of the competition doesn't in any way alter the fact that the 1911 was designed around a .45 caliber cartridge. In fact, it was designed around a .45 caliber cartridge that was also designed by John M. Browning. The 1911 was not designed with any foresight into functioning with other cartridges, and it is well known that 1911s had a history of functional difficulties with the 9mm Parabellum cartridge.

Can the 1911 be made to work reliably with 9mm ammunition? Yes, it can, and most 9mm 1911s today are reliable. But the High-Power was designed around the 9mm Parabellum cartridge (for the same reason the 1911 was designed around a .45 caliber cartridge -- it was a stipulation of the project), and the High-Power is every bit as reliable and as accurate as the 1911 -- especially when considering only 9mm versions.

Before you unload on me -- I'm a 1911 guy. I own and carry 1911s, and when I engaged in shooting games as sport I competed with a 1911 (Para-Ordnance). I also own a couple of High-Power clones, so I am familiar with both pistols. They are both great pistols and, IMHO, both are timeless classics.
 
I have many Browning Hi Powers, including multiple vintage models, competition models, and even one of the beefed up Practical models in 40S&W. I like the gun for its aesthetics and history. As a shooter, I think it leaves quite a bit to be desired in most cases.

My 9mm 1911’s from Wilson, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, and Guncrafter simply leave them far, far behind. I even have a Ruger 9mm 1911 that is awesome.

Obviously the Hi Power will have a capacity advantage. That being said, I also own many 2011’s in 9mm. My point is the 1911/2011 is just far superior. So much more can be done with the design and it’s way more durable to boot.

Obviously it’s a matter of personal preference, but there’s a reason why the 1911/2011’s dominant the competition world, along with CZ and CZ clones. The Hi Power is not remotely competitive.
 
PSA had the Rock Island 1911 in 9mm on sale for $299 which I thought was a great price. If I didn't have a 1911 in 9mm already I would jump on that deal, at that price you can try it out for cheap.
 
Some of you guys are clueless. If you truly think a Browning Hi Power will out shoot and/or be more durable than a good 9mm 1911, then you seriously need an education or wake up call.

The two platforms aren’t even in the same stratosphere. Regardless of how they were intended a century ago. The 1911 was designed around the 45 because that was the stipulation of the trial, not because it couldn’t work with other cartridges.
bac1023 is offline Report Post
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It wouldn't have been the same gun, if designed around the 9mm cartridge.
Colt made some prototypes in an oddball 9.8mm cartridge, the whole gun scaled down for the smaller cartridge, and shopped it around in Europe, with no takers.

The Spanish Star pistols, a long line of sort-of 1911s, were scaled to their chambering, not being .45-sized guns with shorter barrels and butts, but slimmer slides with shorter strokes.

In my experience, the 1911 is much more reliable when chambered in .38 Super and 10mm, than 9mm and .40, as the two former cartridges are the same length as .45.
.40 is/was a very popular chambering in USPSA competition, and literally everyone loaded it a tenth of an inch longer than SAAMI specs to improve feeding in 1911-based pistols; loaded long, it wouldn't fit in anything else.
9mm has benefitted from decades of magazine development, each new design being plugged as the one that will work reliably; ours has a spacer at the back! But ours has a built-in feed ramp at the front!
Super and 10mm run perhaps more reliably than .45.
 
I hear you and that was the case for many years. 9mm 1911 magazines have greatly improved over the years and especially the past 5-10 years.

Wilson Combat, which is likely the largest volume custom/semi custom builder now sells more 1911’s in 9mm and they do 45ACP.

Don’t get me wrong, I own more in 45ACP and likely always will. However, the 9mm 1911 has come a long, long way. For many years I wanted nothing to do with them. Nowadays, I feel they’re some of the nicest shooting and most accurate 9mms on the market.

Frankly, they’re some of the best shooting pistols on the market regardless of caliber.
 
While the 1911 family was designed for .45 as specified by the Old Indian Fighters and Philippine veterans, Colt later did a good job setting it up for .38 Auto as the Super .38.

If you wanted to sponsor Team Mediocre with ammo or at least components, I would pick the Super. But hard economic reality is that if you want to shoot a lot, the current military caliber is the way to go. I have decent 9mm magazines and even have good feeding from the right .38 magazine.
 
The HP is fragile, with mediocre accuracy and a horrendous trigger design
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It is. But it's also slender, has a very good grip for its capacity, and trigger is very easy to improve. And has a nice low bore axis -not the best, but nice anyway.

I do think the 1911 is by far a better gun. I just think it's a bit large for a 9mm, like using a .30/60 action for a .308.
 
It is. But it's also slender, has a very good grip for its capacity, and trigger is very easy to improve. And has a nice low bore axis -not the best, but nice anyway.

I do think the 1911 is by far a better gun. I just think it's a bit large for a 9mm, like using a .30/60 action for a .308.
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I’d call the Hi Power’s bore axis as mid level, much like the 1911. Sort of between a Glock and a classic Sig.

I wouldn’t call the 1911 large for 9mm at all. Certainly not as large as all the 9mm competition pistols on the market. Obviously to each their own. :)
 
bac1023 said:
Not even close in my book. The HP is fragile, with mediocre accuracy and a horrendous trigger design.
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I’m curious, just what is fragile about the HP? I have the FEG copy and find it a very nice reasonably accurate shooter, but I really don’t shoot it a lot so I’m wondering if there’s anything in particular I should watch out for. Probably the most interesting aspect I’ve found is how well balanced it feels, for an all steel gun it still feels light in my hand.
 
I’m curious, just what is fragile about the HP? I have the FEG copy and find it a very nice reasonably accurate shooter, but I really don’t shoot it a lot so I’m wondering if there’s anything in particular I should watch out for. Probably the most interesting aspect I’ve found is how well balanced it feels, for an all steel gun it still feels light in my hand.
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You said it yourself. They have thin frames, they shoot loose fairly easily, they can’t really be checkered due to how thin the frame is.

They weren’t even rated for +P ammo. Durable and robust aren’t words I’d use to describe the Hi Power. This is no Sig P210 we’re talking about, as far as comparisons to other old military pistols.
 
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