8mm ?s

Yes, If I'm not mistaken it would shoot the same as your K98. YOu only have to worry about the 1888 Commission Rifle, as it shoots a downloaded 8mm round, still .323 though, IIRC.
 
The 1888 was a nominal .318" rifle, as were Mausers until ca 1905.
MILITARY 8mms were .323" thereafter although some sporting rifle makers clung to the J bore for a considerable time.
 
Hi. The .318 is I and IR. The .323 is IS and IRS. The 'I' is sometimes seen as 'J'. The change was done in 1905 and the bullet will be a spitzer vs an RN.
 
For what it's worth - I also have been told that the change occurred in/about 1905 as far as from .318 to .323. I have a 1905 Danzig GEW98 and the bore slugs at .323. I only shoot cast from it in cat sneeze loads - I use a 130ish grain flat nose that drops from the mold at .325. I don't size but use a Lyman M mold to expand with. Over a light 8gr load of Red Dot, it shoots very well with the military sight set at the lowest position at 50 yards. Lot's of fun but I'm sure everyone would shoot different depending on bore condition, etc. What can I say? I'm a wimp and don't like the heavy recoil from the standard loads! :D:eek:
 
It's missing the front sight blade. I'm sure that's an easy fix. It doesn't say in the original caliber and could have been converted.

TK
 
RE: 1888 Commission Rifles bore size.

Many were converted in 1905 (and after) to the .323" size.

Mine was, and later went to Turkey.

One of the dead giveaways of a .323" bore is the relief cut at the back of the ring so the longer spritzer bullets would go into the magazine, along with stripper clip guides and a cuttout so you could push the bullets in a stripper clip down into the magazine with your thumb.

If your gun does not have these features, and still uses the mannlicher style packets for the bullets ...... I'd bet on it being a .318" bored gun.
 
MM, you were correct in that the 88 rifles, even those of .323" bore diameters should not use full power 8x57 mauser loads- they are a handload only proposition. The Gewehr '88 action is not strong enough to safely fire the modern 8mm rounds.

8x57Mauser ammo sold in the US by US makers (Remington, etc) is pretty anemic stuff compared to the european stuff.
 
When the conversion was made c. 1905, Model 1898 rifles in German service were re-barrelled to the "S" cartridge. The Model 1888 (Commission Rifles) were not rebarrelled; they were simply rechambered so there would be room for the necessary neck expansion with the new round. The bore diameter was not changed and apparently gave no problems. Note, though that late Model 1888's had bore sizes at or close to the groove depth of the "S" bullet.

In a high power rifle, neck expansion is necessary to allow the bullet to be released; if the chamber neck is too tight (as it could be when a round with a .323 bullet diameter is fired in a chamber with a neck sized for a round with a .318 bullet diameter), pressure goes very high. So running an "S" reamer into the old chamber expanded the chamber neck and gave an adequate margin of safety.

FWIW, the reason for the change was that the old barrels eroded rapidly, since the groove depth was only about .0035" (.318" groove - .311" bore = .007", so the groove depth is only .0035". The change was to deepen the grooves; the bore diameter remained at .311", so .323" groove - .311" bore = .012" for a groove depth of .006", a depth that could handle erosion and corrosion without the lands washing out.

When unconverted Model 1888's were issued (as to reserves), there was no confusion with ammunition; the old ammo was issued only in en block clips which could not be used in the new rifles, and the new ammo was issued only in chargers (stripper clips) which could not be used in unconverted older rifles.

Jim
 
The bore diameter was not changed and apparently gave no problems. Note, though that late Model 1888's had bore sizes at or close to the groove depth of the "S" bullet.
Click to expand...

My reciever ring is stamped "S", a crown, Erfurt, 1892.

The 1892 has part of the bottom of the middle two digits ground away for the relief cut for the pointy spitzer bullets ....

The bore slugged to .323" (by my gunsmith) .... somebody at some point put that barrel on there .... the marks that I can read on it match those of the reciever..... the only parts that don't match are the ones on the bolt (different serial number and Turkish crescent).
 
I said:

"Note, though that late Model 1888's had bore sizes at or close to the groove depth of the "S" bullet."

Those rifles were the first selected for conversion, but rifles with .318" groove diameter barrels were converted.

Jim
 
Thanks guys. Will avoid this one. The PPU stuff is full power and accurate. The core lokts did feel pathetic and performed poorly
 
As James K says, the 1888s were converted to handle 7.92x57 JS .323" by running in a reamer that enlarged the chamber neck and also tapered the throat to size the S bullet down to .318-.321" gradually.
Further modification on many of them was to convert from en bloc to stripper clip loading. There are at least two generations of that alteration.
These rifles were meant for service and line of communication troops, and were not expected to be shot a lot.
 
The Germans never rebarreled any guns for the S cartridge, all they did was recut the leade to prevent excessive pressure from the new bullet touching the rifling and add a little notch to work with the overall longer cartridge.
The only time you have to worry is if you have a civilian rifle in I or IR that might have tighter barrel dimensions than the military used.
 
Thanks guys. Will avoid this one. The PPU stuff is full power and accurate. The core lokts did feel pathetic and performed poorly
Click to expand...

I'm sorry if my quibbling about the 1888's scared you off of this '98 .... it should be fine with full power ammo, even if it's not a collectible. The brass from the Remington ammo reloads just fine to European levels .... with the 8mm milsurp amm drying up, reloading will be a good option.
 
Because the grooves are deeper so the groove diameter is larger.

The Internet seems not able to compute the original definition of "bore diameter," which is the land-to-land measurement.
Bullets are normally chosen (in modern American practice) on the basis of groove diameter.
 
^^^^^^ Thanks, Jim.

"The Germans never rebarreled any guns for the S cartridge,"

That is not what I have understood. Model 1888 rifles were not rebarrelled for the "S" cartridge. But if what I have read is correct, Model 1898 rifles in service c. 1905 were recalled and re-barreled, not just rechambered. That was done not out of safety concerns but because they were not accurate with the "S" bullet, a point of less concern with the converted Model 1888's, which were not going to be used in the front lines.

Jim
 
whew

I went ahead and ordered a Yugo 24/47 from JandG. paid the few bucks extra for a decent one. Just wanted a shooter to split the duties with the K98. Thanks again. I just get confused honestly quite easily. I do know that my ammo can be shared between these rifles. It is hard to enjoy shooting wondering if you are feeding the right ammo. K98s are above my means now and the straight bolt should be a nice change of pace. We shall see
 
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