8mm mauser help needed

[44 AMP]

When you say "Imperial German" are you referring to Hochdeutsch?


Interestingly, I have seen information (long ago) that said that at least some of the .318" rifles were not rebarreled to .323" but simply rethroated, to accept the larger diameter bullets. Can't speak to the accuracy of the information though.

 

[ernie8]

There were NO .318 groove barrels ever used by the German military . The original Gew-88 barrel was .3208 groove . The original bullet was a .3188 bore riding bullet , a long round nose , to keep friction down . They went to a .323 groove in 1896 1/2 on new made rifles and used that size barrel for any repair rebarrels . The new S ammo had a .3208 dia bullet with a little driving band . It was made that way to be usable in the old barrels still in service . The original throat for the old long 236 bullet was 3x longer than needed for the very short 154 pointed bullet . so why would they rethroat ? That mis- information comes from two sources . One they did Check the chamber neck dia to be sure there was clearance for the new round as it was .002 larger in dia at the neck . Just to find any rifle that may have a real small neck . But as you know must military rifles were made with a lot of neck clearance to start , so it was not a real problem . Any Gew-88 that passed was S stamped . All the S and non S Gw-88 I have checked have the same size anyway . When this info was translated to English , the word throat was used instead of neck .

 

[ernie8]

I am not the German speaker . All I know is that many German words were slightly different or had different meanings in 1890's German than modern . Just like 1890's US words . He knows the old meanings . What I do is find in metal in the real rifles what he says the old docs say .

 

[Paul B.]

Well, if you want data, this is from the Lyman manual #41. Be advised that while it is published data, it is from most likely the mid to late 1950s. It is for the 8MM Mauser with 236 gr. bullet. Use at your own risk.

*4895 Start: 35.0 gr./1950 FPS Max: 44.0 gr./2300 FPS

IMR 3031 Start: 34.0 gr./1920 FPS Max: 45.0 gr./ 2350 FPS

IMR 4064 Start: 41.0 gr./2125 FPS Max: 47.0 gr./ 2375 FPS

IMR 4320 Start: 38.0 gr./1935 FPS Max: 46.0 gr./2350 FPS3

*The powders marked IMR were probably made my Du pont. 4895 could be DuPont or it could be Hodgden, and my best guess was the latter.Note that "H"4895 back then was sold like 4831, in paper bags and you would be told to use data for 3031, 4064 or 420 depending on that particular lot. I have Lyman manuals in my collection showing 51.0 gr. as the start load for the 30-06 with a 150 gr. bullet. That charge is now shown as maximum in Lyman manuals since 1964 and frankly has been way too hot in several of my 06 rifles.

 

[44 AMP]

When this info was translated to English , the word throat was used instead of neck .

It is fairly common that translations are often technically correct but not 100% accurate or appropriate for the context.

And English is one of the languages where multiple definitions of the same word are common, as well as having different words with the same definitions, or close enough to use in casual conversation but making a tremendous difference in technical conversations and information.

And, it can get even "tricksier" when the first translation of a foreign word is done by an Englishman, and then "retranslated" into a common American English term. Especially when referring to technical names...

Context matters, often it's the most important thing, and these days it seems to be the most ignored thing in the Internet age...

"Neck" and "throat" are not exactly the same things either in biology or in firearms terminology, but in casual conversation they often pass as equivalent, because people's use of language is often sloppy and as long as the general idea gets across, precision isn't needed, right??

Except sometimes it is needed. Motor or Engine, Tires or Wheels, and many others get the point across in casual conversation but when things turn technical, they fail drastically.

And then. on top of all that, when the govt gets involved and writes their own definitions of terms that become law, it gets really bad.