89,000 Veterans "Legally" Disarmed

Here's a story url:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty/20000622_xnjdo_va_gives_f.shtml

And a reference from the academic world - sorry to lay that on the academic haters here:


Author(s):
Edwards, Arthur A.
Address: State U New York, Buffalo, USA
Title:
Firearms and the mentally ill: A legislative overview and jurisprudential analysis.
Source:
Behavioral Sciences & the Law Vol 11(4), Fal 1993, 407-421.
Standard No:
ISSN: 0735-3936
Language:
English
Abstract:
Examines federal and state laws that prohibit the mentally ill from possessing firearms and assesses the jurisprudence that has
developed as courts have applied the federal law. Although there is little or no empirical data linking the mentally ill with firearms
violence, legislative activity and popular political debate invariably include restrictions on the mentally ill. Notwithstanding the
proliferation of firearms and antecedent violence, the author suggests that legislators and policy-makers must separate this issue from
the broader and more emotional issue of "gun control" in order to effectuate better public policy and simultaneously protect the
constitutional rights of the mentally ill. ((c) 1999 APA/PsycINFO, all rights reserved):

[This message has been edited by Glenn E. Meyer (edited June 22, 2000).]

And another - aren't you glad you have academics around (snide comment to some)


Labeling the mentally ill through psychiatric records: The Israeli case.
Source:
Israel Journal of Psychiatry & Related Sciences Vol 22(3), 1985, 221-231.
Standard No:
ISSN: 0333-7308
Language:
English
Abstract:
Describes the practice of using psychiatric records in the process of licensing people to carry handguns. A reassessment of this policy
reveals a dilemma between the right of mental patients for confidentiality and nondiscriminatory treatment by society on the one hand,
and society's right to protect itself and its members from people who may constitute danger to themselves or others, on the other hand.
It is concluded that the present uses of psychiatric records are not warranted by any empirical evidence and stem from stereotypes of the
mentally ill as dangerous and unpredictable. ((c) 1999 APA/PsycINFO, all rights reserved):

[This message has been edited by Glenn E. Meyer (edited June 22, 2000).]
 
I thought much on this tonight at work. I had to think back if I have ever seen a Psychiatrist/psychologist at the VA. I have it turns out. After my discharge, I was told to have the VA check me out for symptoms associated with service in the Persian Gulf War. Part of the battery of exams was a psychiatric exam. Now I have to wonder if even visiting a mental health professional for the most benign reasons is cause enough for Togo West to send my name to FBI as a mental incompetent? This action will truly be damning to the VA. What veteran will EVER seek treatment if he thinks that his records will be used against him at a latter date?
I read the constitution again tonight. Ex Post Facto laws jumped out at me. Remember the spousal abuse law passed in '98? I was in the Army, and we had a formation to determine if anyone was prohibited from possessing a government issued weapon due to any previous convictions. This was an Ex Post Facto law. A law designed to punish a behavior or later add to the punishment that one might recieve. It was also a dangerous precident as now we have a law that makes a misdemeanor reason enough to bar the possession of arms.
The military is in a bad way now. The reason being is that all of todays soldiers, sailors and marines will be tomorrows veterans. Who wants to put themselves in that position? Congress also passed a retro-active law reducing the retirement of soldiers while the elder Bush was president. Where does the kicking around of our servicemen end? Where does the respect of those who served begin?
 
Glenn,

There may be at least two issues here. <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>The misuse of regulations/laws to violate the civil rights of the "mentally ill" and<LI>the arbitrary, or at least routine and too casual, diagnosing of a veteran's medical complaint as "psycological" in source.</UL>

It's my understanding, no source here, that a veteran's health complaint, that can't be diagnosed to a firm cause, may be routinely and casually attributed to possible psycological causes. I suppose a psychosomatic illness could result in the same label in your medical records?

There is also a larger threat here and it may be a bit of conspiracy theory: How long before civilian commercial hospitals in the US surrender their records of the "mentally ill", or those with a "psycologically-based" complaint, to the FBI and BATF?

How large will their data base be then?
 
Coinneach,

um....All of the above?

I just hope to whatever gods exist that the man who replaced Star (sorry his name escapes me)as independent counsel, lives up to his promise to indite the SOB as soon as he steps out of the Whitehouse on Jan 20th.

I realy can't stand Bush and would rather vote straight Libertarian since thats what I am. I can't, however, avoid the sick feeling that any vote other than one for Bush is a vote for Algore.
I'm afraid of repeating the last electon and the fiasco with Perot.

Any suggestions on another way of looking at this? :confused:

Rob

------------------
"TANSTAAFL"- R.A. Heinlen

"Molon Labe"- Leonidas to Xerxes at Thermopile
 
This issue violates the rights of those who are sought treatment and is an atrocity on those grounds.

It is also a deliberate act against the RKBA.

One might contact the ACLU about this also.
 
Me thinks Tom Matiska has hit the banana.

Why only Vet's? It's not only Vet's who'll come under scrutiny on this issue. See, this is a test bed, since Vet's, in particular those under the care of the Vet's Administration, are the test animals here.

At what point will the CDC, through governmental regulation, mandate your HMO to turn over your medical records?
The questions are already being asked via some Dr's, from what we've discussed before on TFL. Tie the information together with the Dr's professional knowledge of your physical/mental condition, and all of a sudden you're a felon...

In your past you may have been prescribed to a mood altering drug to handle a physical/mental condition. Does this mean you're all of a sudden dangerous, and out of control? No, it doesn't, but it does mean that a retroactive action has taken place to deny you of you're Constitutional Rights. And you likely committed no act of crime, or aggression toward anyone. You simply fell into a group targeted as the easiset to blanket with a specific innocous law. It doesn't pertain to most other people, so it will go unnoticed, and unchallenged.

I'm a Vet, and I take extreme offense to those who would target the very people, most of who were conscripts in political wars. To make them felons, or deny them the rights they were fighting to protect, as required by their country.
This is a pure form of turining the Nation against it's own Veterans, to make a mental image that anyone who would knowingly, willingly take to arms, to be a sociopath, or pschyopath.

Is there no honor left in these lawmakers? Do they know what they're telling the future generations of our soldiers? Perhaps this is what they want, to make us rely upon the Hessians for our national security.

Best Regards,
Don

------------------
The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms;
History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
-----------------
"Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial, and destroy their rugged- ness.
Get control of all means of publicity, and thereby get the peoples' mind off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and plays, and other trivialities.
Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance."

Vladimir Ilich Lenin, former leader of USSR
 
What next?

Ever been to see a therapist?
...take medicine for a headache?
...vote for Reagan?
...feel the need to own a gun?

You are mentally incompetent.
 
I'll offer this advice, although it's not from my own experience but from that of a friend. If you ever need to seek counseling for anxiety, depression or other minor causes, pay out of your own pocket. My friend did this to avoid being denied insurance, but this bull adds a whole new dimension to the tactic.

Dick
 
If you think about it we are all crazy as hell for letting komrad klinton et al. get away with stuff like this.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Coineach asks;
"Why does Clinton have such a hard-on against vets?"

Because her Klinton is the Amerikan spokesperson for the one worlders. The american vets are a large body of proven militant people with training in arms and the use thereof. And therefore a hinderance to the completion of the socialism of America.

The VA has some of the finest medical practicioners on staff. They also have the most incompetent undereducated language impaired quacks in this country on staff. A VA doc does not have to have proof of passage of any state medical examiners board of competency. Buy a doctorate in medicine from the University of Haiti ( Papa Doc School of Medicine ) and come to America, either work at the 7-11 on the night shift or go to work for the VA as a doctor. With the power to put anything you want in a patients jacket. The right to prescribe the medication of YOUR choice, right or wrong.

I gotta be on the S list. In the last 25 years I have filed formal complaints, with documentation, against several so called doctors in the VA system.

------------------
Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
EVERONE SEND A COPY OF THAT LETTER TO EVERONE THAT YOU CAN THINK OF THAT MIGHT HELP.YES I MEAN TO SAY THIS LOUD.YOUR ELECTED POLITIONS,
HELL EVEN THE ACLU.
DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------
beemerb
We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world;
and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men
every day who don't know anything and can't read.
-Mark Twain
 
American Civil Liberties Union
125 Broad Street
New York, NY., 10024-2400

Phone: ( 212 ) 549-2500
email.. aclu@aclu.org
 
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