870 police: help me choose sights and stock

To my understanding, the LAPD's elite SIS detectives use 12ga shotguns with Surefire fore-ends & pistol grips.
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They also wear BDU's to work...

The civilian police forces are trying to distance them selves from other civilians by playing dress up in black GI Joe clothes... They prefer to associate their job with that of a military force operating during wartime in a warzone rather than a publically funded security team...

I don't care one lick what cops use during OFFENSIVE assault... we are talking HOME DEFENSE!!!
Not even apples and oranges...
More like the difference in fruits and meats...

Brent
 
To my understanding, the LAPD's elite SIS detectives use 12ga shotguns with Surefire fore-ends & pistol grips.
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You have assumed that the LAPD SIS gets to use what they want or gets to use the "best" gear rather than what a bureaucrat chose or because the bid came in the cheapest. It may be that each and every detective wanted a pistol grip, but it might have nothing whatsoever to do with their choice. I'll bet you we could find many, many more cops with standard stocks - and that, too, wouldn't mean very much.

Pistol grips are a choice, I find them more trouble than they are worth. They tangle in the sling, on a Mossberg they are undeniably useless, and they often travel hand in hand with the equally tacticool and useless adjustable stocks favored by mall ninjas (figure out what LOP you need and buy that stock). In my experience, a pistol grip on a shotgun slows down the mount and cheek weld, and thus the first shot, so I think they are more for "show" than "go." I feel the same way about red dot sights on a shotgun; it's a shotgun, friends, if you can't put rounds on target in shotgun range without a red dot sight, you don't need a red dot sight, you need practice. Don't even get me started on the "just as good as an Aimpoint" red dot sights.....

Worst of all is the vertical fore grip on a pump shotgun. Tell me how that improves anything for anyone. It's just more Tapco crap that someone will buy and stick on their gun without any concept of whether or how it enhances the utility of the gun.

To all the people who just got offended, it's an opinion, nothing more. I like Thai food, the color blue, brunettes, and I hate cauliflower. Don't get bent if you disagree, especially if your pistol grip adjustable stock just as good as an Aimpoint red dot sight vertical fore grip Tapco catalog shotgun works for you.
 
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Guys....

The standard stock has about 200 years of R&D behind it. Nothing else yet made can direct the shot as well and in more comfort.

I've tried a fair number of the adjustable stocks on shotguns and rifles. When used with a lightly recoiling load, they're OK, though I'm not quite as fast. When used with anything over 5.56mm, they're a handicap,IMO.

Get a standard stock, get it fitting you like your favorite jeans, and shoot plenty.

Oh,yes. Use the lightest loads you can for the mission. There's no Minimum Pain Requirement.....
 
I seem to be noticing a trend where people who have spent their lives shooting trap and bird hunting can never get used to a pistol grip stock. Perhaps it is because a pistol grip stock does not lend it self to those activities very well.


I have also noticed that people who come from a AR15 background seem to be far more appreciative of the advantages of a pistol grip stock for the kind of shooting likely to be done with an 870 POLICE.
 
I'm usually not into whizbang stuff, but the Specops Knoxx stock seems like a great idea and overall has good reviews. No, I'm not hyper sensitive to recoil, but would like a very light recoil for others in my family.

http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SpecOps-Adjustable-Shotgun-Stock,1158,1447.htm

Found a Wilson Combat 870 with this stock. Might be the way to go...although handling an 870 express at Academy tonight for $270 got me thinking the other direction!
 
If stuntmanmike only had a clue about the people he thinks are part of a trend.
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I posted something which I have observed that is based on the prior postings that many people have made about themselves and their background. My observations are not limited to people in this thread nor do they include all of the people in this thread.


If you like a traditional stock then fine. However, you are the clueless one if you think you know what I have or haven't observed.
 
checkmyswag said:
Which stock is best? Any advantage im not seeing to the standard stock? Id like a pistol grip. Which is better the solid type or M4 type?
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Standard stocks and pistol grip stocks work just fine. You need to get out and shoot guns with each to see what you like. With that said, I do not like pistol grips (w/o the stock). As for brand, I'm partial to Choate stocks. To be honest, I've never tried the other brands, though.

checkmyswag said:
Sights: bead/rifle/ghost ring?
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First, my caveat: I'm not a highly trained operator/expert/retired LEO. With that said, for sights, I like those little magnetic high visibility sights, like these: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/16701-1.html. If you've got a vent rib on the barrel, you just pop them on, and they stay on pretty well. They won't help you when it's so dark that you really need a flashlight, but then again, you shouldn't be shooting targets that you can't see. OTOH, in low-light situtations, like dusk or dawn, they're a whole lot more visible than the standard bead sight.
 
Mike, if that was directed at me, I've plenty of experience with stuff having separate PGs.

870s with folders. Both factory and early Choates.

M 16/AR15s.

At least two of my hunting rifles and a fighting rifle had them.

A 760 in 30-06,a similar 742 in the same caliber and a much tweaked SKS, to be specific. AND, I plan on putting together an AR soon. It will have one.

The stock typically found on shotguns, for most folks and when it fits, gives the best recoil protection and fastest recovery,IMO.

The best tool for the job. On a shotgun, that's the traditional stock.

However, if the other style works well for you, and you're well used to it, go ahead on.
 
Stunt, I have never been on a formal bird hunt or dirt dove shoot...

And I am a staunch supporter of traditional stock configuration.

I have offered to host folks who wish to spend a couple days in some gorgeous country shootin' guns, shootin' the bull and practicing a few drills.

The ability the average guy already has with a traditional gun is often far better than a guy trained in PGO or detached pistol grip (ar/ak sorts) use in some of the less ideal conditions or shooting positions... The speed from one mount to another hold is always faster for me while remaining lethally accurate with every shot.

And I cannot stress enought, the retention potential of the traditional gun over any other especially the pgo guns...

And never underestimate your opponents ability or skills. In some of my more heated informal drills, I prided my ability to turn a short rifle or shotgun onto the person holding it with a quickness.

In some of these settings, physical contact was not limited and we often ended up with black eyes, fat lips, goose eggs on the face and mouses (not the little plural rodents but them flesh knots) on the eye.

My gun was never taken from me with traditional stock unless the guy put me down and used his foot on my chest or throat to leverage it from my grip.

I often had it turned under my chin or at CoM if I tried the PGO or DPG stock installed.

Argue all you want but most who have worked severe duty drills prefer the traditional shape as much as clay champs and dove assassins.

Brent
 
minimum? I had a single shot with a pair of appropriate size "one hole conduit straps" clamping a first generation D cell maglight under it when I was a little kid night shootin' yotes at the chicken coops... One shot one kill... and the bulb often blew upon discharge so no real need for too many rounds in a mag tube...:o

Brent
 
My pick is a traditional stock with either a Hi Viz bead or no sight.
IMO, ghost ring sites just aren't needed at most HD distances and aren't applicable in low light conditions.
 
I was never issued the M-16 but did my tour with an M-14, however I think there is a huge dif in shooting a lightweight bullet through an AR15 and a heavy 12 gauge load. I suppose the retired LEO that posted about the wrist problems caused by pistol grips on 12 gauges didn't know what he was talking about. Still, I suspect the pistol grip is fine for some applications. I just don't know of any. As for not knowing what stuntmanmike knows, that is one cross I don't have to bear.
 
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