7mm Rem Mag Vs .308

So if I can consistently fire a sub 3 inch group at 500 yards from prone w/bipod, under good conditions and I am willing to wait for good conditions and the proper presentation is taking a 500 yard shot un-ethical??
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only if you shoot three cold barrel shots allow the weather to change between them and group must be centered.
Also IMHO there is a big difference between a 500yard limit and talking about 600 and out. Also past 600 yards time of flight can allow the animal time to move.Now you got a wounded animal that it's going to take a couple minutes to get to (even if you are Carl Lewis) now you have to start tracking it and it may be 1/2 a mile away (most animals can run faster than you wounded)

The animals deserve better get closer.
 
How many of these long distance hunters ,I mean shooters have the ability to make a shot at over 400yards shooting out of a swaying tree stand or leaning on one or just off a drop stick type bypod. Lay'n prone with a bipode on the gun??? Never ever seen a hunter than had that kind of set up except some ex or wana bee sniper types that never let the deer stand around long enough to know what they shot and with the help of a spotter or how many miss's were edited out. Yes a 308 will shot well to a 1000yds but with a drop that is darn hard to keep track of. I also have seen stupid long shots take'n on game with good results, does that make it a skill or just a stupid shot. Just a stupid shot. Anyone watch the sniper show on tv where the guys had a target jump up at distances from 150 yards to 600 yards ,all they had to do was find them and shoot before there window closed on them and this was with a spotter . Most missed there targets more than they carred to talk about. That related more to hunting where you only have a short time to make a judgement on the game ,find the distance and shoot. Ain't none of these calibers or production rifles ready for 600 yard shooting with out to much luck being used up.
 
600 hundred yards is a long shot with any caliber. With factory loads the 308 only has 1000 pounds of energy out to 500 hundred yards; so if your not loading your own its not really an option. If you are loading your own you could POTENTIALLY use either the 308 or the 7mm mag. The magnum will have more energy and a flatter trajectory though.
 
Spinning turrets, doping wind and rangefinding aint rocket science........

700 is the norm and anything under is like taking candy from a baby.
 
For long range big game hunting the fastest bullet you can stand to shoot that is a proper weight and design for the task will compensate more effectively for errors by the shooter.
The 7 mag will simply shoot a similar weight bullet faster than a 308 and with a higher ballistic coefficient. No more to it than that.
 
IMHO the 7mm Rem Mag is outdated by the WSM's (270WSM, 7mmWSM, .300WSM). If you buy a new rifle, go for the internal ballistic advantages of short fat cases (WSM).
 
Arranging ammo for 7mm Rem Mag in our part of the world is the most difficult part where a single bullet sells for $10.625 USD per unit that too if/when it is available.

A WSM is a far fetched dream for now.
 
Medium game at 600+ yards? I wouldn't shoot. That's an additional quarter of a mile I'd have to drag something, in addition to the few miles to get back to the truck.
 
Personally, shooting game beyond 400 yards, whether the gun is capable of it or not, is unethical and improper - there are way too many variables and chances of just wounding an animal.....not acceptable behavior
 
WSM is Winchester's Sorry Marketing. The triumvirate claim superiority, but don't buck up at the chronograph or the loading bench. On the original topic, I believe that a man should know his limitations. Mine is 300 yards. If I can't get closer, we both walk.
 
For all of the ethics concerns of taking game at 600 yds... the OP asking the question is on the complete opposite side of the world that we're on. We don't know his ability, we don't know his situation, and we don't know his purpose.

War may be talking about protecting crops, or protecting other things. While I certainly agree with everyone who has chimed in on ethical shooting, you have to really think about the application. I know men that I would trust and not question taking shots @ 600 yards... and I DO believe in being as ethical and humane as possible. There are alot of people that shouldn't be shooting beyond 100.



With that, the 7mm rem mag is in every way superior at this range. A flatter trajectory definately helps at that range as you're getting into a healthy bullet drop just by being off in range estimation by 50 yards. It's also the very clear winner in energy delivery. .308 starts to peter out pretty quick beyond the range in question.
 
I just picked up my Sierra loading book and pulled out some interesting data.

I realize published data does not favor the full potential of a 7 Rem mag

But the Sierra recommended hunting load for a 160 Spitzer boat tail was 2900 fps.
The recommended hunting load for a .308 165 gr load was 2670 fps.

In each case ,we are playing by the same rules,Sierras recommended hunting load.

Using the criteria of a +/- 5 inches in trajectory,what sierra calls "Max point blank range",the 308 is 320 yds,the 7 mag is 345 yds.

We can quibble over shades of grey,the point is part of the advantage to the long range high velocity magnum is imaginary.

If a person has the basic skill of using a duplex or other reticle feature to estimate range,the trajectory is friendly enough to cover for a bit of range estimation error.Wind and mirage still have some effect,but its manageable at the 300 something ranges

Velocity is high enough to get excellent bullet performance.Once the game has been sighted,all can be acomplished with confidence using only the scope and rifle at the 300 something yard range.

Now,I do shoot targets at 1000 yds,and more.I do have a Leica rangefinder,Sierra's ballistic software,a chronograph,and a 4.5 to 14 Leupold Mark 4 on Nightforce 20 minute bases .It has a Kenton knob calibrated for 162 gr Hornady SST's at 3050 fps at a 5000 ft elevation.Its on a 7 mm Rem mag Laredo.It's my "Watching over spring calving" rifle.

I just suggest game seldom holds a pose where I can see them at 600 yds.
At those ranges,30 yds or so of range estimation error can cause blown backstraps or a broken leg. A thread of wind in the canyon that doesnt touch the leaves can push my bullet.My animal can take a step as the trigger breaks.
Ah,but we can spot the game with binoculars,then switch to the laser rangefinder,then put it down and pick up the rifle and find a position.All of this requires moving.Motion is easily seen.It takes time.Has our animal moved?

Try,early in the morning,dawn,sandbag a riflescope on a target at 600 + yards.Wait till the sun begins to heat the ground,then without touching the scope,look again? How is the elevation? Off 2 or 3 feet?Mirage.It works the same as when we put a stick in water.The stick seems to bend.Mirage appears to move the target.

From the military sniper skills we have learned a lot,and we have new toys.Thats nice.Those military snipers are even better at sneaking up closer to their target that they are at shooting.

Anyway,I'm not a want to be sniper.I have too much respect for the real thing to entertain Walter Mitty fantasies.I know who I am not.

You all,live how you want to,but for me,hunting is different than that.

Unless maybe if I see a coyote....
 
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The difference between a clean kill and a nasty wound could be 1/2 inch, or less. A faster similar weight and BC bullet is less effected by gravity and wind over the same range. You can't get around it.

Personally, I can't hit a car at 600 yards.
 
Berger 180 grainers 7mm, have BC greater than 7. Slick little bullets. To me, the .308 offers nothing in this arena.

For that matter and that distance, why not build a dedicated rig if money available. How about this: bedded in McMillan A5 stock, remington action trued up or after market action, heavy contour match barrel about 28 inches long plus or minus a brake, and 7mm STW or 7mm ultra mag or 300 win mag or 300 ultra mag. Badger bases and rings plus a leupold 8-25x50 tactical scope.

If money is an issue, get a remington 700 with a nikon monarch scope 4-16 in 7 mag.

Either way give it lots of practice. When you start shooting at distance, it makes you realize that the cerebral game of which is better cartridge wise is not that important, because you realize until you practice more you won't be shooting at distance at live game.
 
by the way, I think long range hunting, the 7 rem mag will give more fps, especially useful with the heavy bullets. the wsm has a short neck and with heavy bullets, less case capacity. go with the 7 rm over the wsm. for that matter go with a 300 rum. The 7mag can head space off the shoulder if you neck size only. I see nothing the 7wsm offers over the 7rm.
 
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