700 REM. Adjustable trigger?

Lol

Now Harry, seems that you do like a light trigger pull after all. Don't worry about it, I love em also on my own guns. Here's lies the key to what you and I are referring too as well. As long as you know what you are doing and will stand behind your own work, a low trigger pull is fine. I have a few that are lowered and then I have some that aren't. My hunting rifles all have a 3 1/2 -4lb trigger pull because I am not just sitting still when I hunt. Only the rifles that I shoot from the bench alon have the trigger pull lowered.

With that said, if anyone decides to lower their trigger pull weight down below 4lbs, please make sure to double and triple check it when the gun is empty. Please do a bump test as well slam the bolt closed and make sure the sear doesn't release the striker. I will check my own work for a few days and then take it to the range and do all of the tests again with the weapon loaded before I ever let it out the door to a customer. Please don't ever just let a accidental follow down go and not fix the problem or you will end up being sorry one day. I have had numerous guns come into my shop that the owner had done their own trigger job work and had it fail and then they couldn't solve the problem. That's all that Harry and I have been trying to do is warn you against this because things do happen when you least expect them too. I have seen triggers come in that were so negative in their sear/hammer engagement that you could push them off without any effort at all so please be careful out there guys.


Anyone can lower the pull weight, but it takes experience to lower the weight and sear engagement and still have the gun be safe. Just because you get the weight lowered and it doesn't go off accidentally on the first time you check does that mean the gun will be safe. I have done the work and then checked it over and over for a day before the problem even came up. So don't let it happen to you. Be safe and great shooting.
 
A 1# trigger on a bench rifle would probably be the heaviest trigger in the competition. I've installed a few Timney triggers and never adjust one so it'd go off when I breathed on it. Timney triggers aren't for benchrest shooters; they'll go with Jewell or the like.

Many, many folks carry 1911s with triggers that break cleanly below 4#. There's no legal liability for using a reduced trigger pull weight in a legitimate case of self-defense.

My 1# triggers are for target/varmint shooting only. There's a big difference in shooting @ 300 yds. with a 1# trigger and a 4# trigger, regardless of how "clean" you think the 4# trigger pulls. Adjusting a Remington 700 trigger is simple. Just be careful and don't try to go below 2.5# or so.

If a trigger is set up so that it goes off when the bolt is closed, regardless of the brand name of the trigger, then the trigger was set up buy somebody who doesn't know a trigger from a hole in the ground. :)

All my carry pistols break @ under 4#. No, I'm not afraid of any civil or criminal liability, should I have to use one of my pistols in a case of self-defense. :cool:
 
question for you

Are you a certified and licensed and bonded gunsmith? Are you considerd to be an expert in firearms?

Harry is and he can tell you from his knowledge that having a trigger pull of under 4lbs can be a liability in a criminal case as well as a civil case. I am not trying to show you up or anything similar to that, but don't try to talk about something like you are an expert and tell everyone around here that there won't be a problem for you if the right attorney gets ahold of the case and finds out that you have a carry piece that has a light trigger pull and that you did the work yourself unless you know what the dickets you are doing and can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you did the job correctly. There have been numerous cases of guys getting into trouble over having a very light trigger pull that they did themselves and felt the same way that you do and had an attorney show the jury that they had some kind perverted want to kill someone because they lowered their trigger pull down to where they didn't have to physically think about pulling there trigger when the time came for them to shoot the criminal. Yes, that it right, criminals have rights too according to a good many of the juries that you can run into. One may just be the one that sits on your case if the need ever arises.

I repeat once again for everyone, don't just go lower a carry pistol or a hunting rifle just because someone on a board said that they do it and don't have any problems with it and think that you will be safe and not sorry because that person said so. Make up your mind based on what you know about what you need.

The original post was about a Remington factory trigger and wanting to lower it's pull weight. You can lower it of course, and yet you can lower it too much and have something that you don't to happen and land you in hot water, take it from there. It can be lowered to a safe level by most anyone, and most anyone can lower it too far and remove too much engagement of the sear and the striker and have it go off when you simply close the bolt. Let your conscious be your guide on it.
 
Trigger Pulls

When it comes down to it if ( and we all hope we never have to) shoot someone.I don't care if you have a 30 pound trigger their lawyer or the prosecutor will make an issue of it . Thats why we train to keep our finger down the side of the frame because a natural reaction when you are startled is to close you hand thus gun goes off. You butt is in trouble same for ammo if you use hollow points the other lawyer will save you planned to kill him so why not use ball ammo. When it comes down to it know matter what you use or how much you practice your in for one hell of a fight when it comes to keep your rear out of jail and keep from loosing everything you own. But heck what do I know. Be Safe Out There Kurt
 
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I am a qualified gunsmith.

(Colorado School of Trades, if you need to be nosey about it) I just retired after a 20 year military career, combat trained, and I've been shooting rifle and pistol competitively since about 1974. I've got a 3.5lb trigger on my carry Caspian Officer's ACP. I'd love to see the court case in a defensive shooting that turned sour because of the gun's trigger pull weight. I'll check this thread often to see the case number and results, I've got time.

Likewise, I've got single-set Canjar triggers on many of my rifles, as well as a Keplinger or two. One of my AR-15 rifles has a Jewell trigger, horror of horrors! There's even a pair of set triggers on my Sharps 1874 Business Rifle, as it came directly from the manufacturer. Wanna see the factory trigger on my Anschutz? So I really have to take the statement "Never, never go below 4 pounds on ANY trigger" with a grain of salt or two. That's a blanket statement, and really a disservice to gun owners who appreciate a light, crisp trigger, while maintaining gun safety between their ears, where it belongs.
 
lol

It's funny when a man who is only trying to keep everyone safe and is speaking from years of experience gives out advise and everyone tries to say what he said is nonsense.

Is it necessary for you to have that 3.5 lbs trigger pull or would that half pound actually make a difference to you? You said you were in the military, how many of the arms that you carried in the military had a light trigger pull? Why is that? Please by all means, shed some light on this subject and tell us all about how the weapons that you carried on duty in the military had clean crisp 3.5lb pulls or less and why that was necessary for you to have them like that.

You said you are a trained gunsmith, tell us how many trigger jobs have you done for your customers that left your door with a 2lbTP? Who did you perform them for and did you not have concern for their safety and others around them. I and everyone here that knows anything about trigger pulls know that you can safely take them down to whatever range that you want to and do it safely, but what happens when a guy that knows nothing about gun safety picks up the gun and while fooling with it accidently touches the trigger and it goes off? Sh*t happens all the time and for this reason alone, I don't just lower the trigger pull on the jobs that I do below 4 lbs unless A) the customer signs off on it and B), I feel comfortable enough with them to do so.

This is plain common sense and it's really not up for argument, but if you and all the rest of the gunsmiths around here want to say that you do it without regard, go right ahead. To begin with, the guy that asked the question doesn't know enough about his own gun to know if the trigger that came on his model 700 is even adjustable. Is this the type of person that you want to tell to go ahead and lower it down to 2 lbs and forget about it? If you're a responsible person and businessman, the answer should be a resounding "NO". Think about it and get back to me on this because I really would like to know the answer to this question. I got all day as well because I ain't going anywhere so please get back to me on it. I'll get busy and find the case for you where a guy got into trouble because he shot a man with a pistol that had a very light trigger pull set up for target shooting.

I'll just say one more thing and then I'll hush about this. What has been said is not something that is crazy or a stange idea. It is simply not necessary to have a trigger pull below 4lbs for a carry gun or hunting rifle. If it is something that you want to have, then that is fine by me because I am not saying that you cannot have one lower than this. Trigger control is more important than a light trigger pull to begin with and just because you have a light trigger pull certainly doesn't mean that a gun that doesn't have one won't outshoot yours. 'Nuff said and I'll hush for now.
 
some more for you

I'll admit that I am having a hard time finding the case I am referring to, but I found some information on the subject for you. I'll keep looking for the case for you though.

Do a search on Glocks. There have been more accidental shootings with them simply because the trigger pull was as light as it was. There have been numerous times when officers shot themselves accidentally or shot suspects and innocent civilians because their guns just happened to go off. They must have placed their fingers in the trigger guard which is a natural thing to do when you feel your life might be at risk and the trigger was pulled without their even realizing it. I'll let you read it on your own or I can post a couple of links for all of the shootings that I found this morning.
 
I'm not going to get in the debate about light trigger pulls as I've been there done that on this Forum. It was implied by a few that I know nothing about trigger pulls because I'm guilty of doing light ones, so be it.

I do have to take issue with the statements about accidental shootings because someone placing their fingers in the trigger guard which is a natural thing to do.
If one is properly trained and practices good gun handling skills placing your finger in the trigger guard is not a natural thing to do.

I know so called accidental shootings happen but in reality these are negligent shootings because of poor training and poor gun handling skills. It's not the fault of the weapon nor what weight the trigger pull is, it's the space between the users ears.

Stop and think about how many cardinal rules of safe gun handling are broken when an ND takes place and someone gets shot.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
Bob, my sentiments exactly.

It doesn't matter if you have an 8-ounce trigger in your FACTORY 40X rifle. My FACTORY Sharps set triggers let go in the ounce range, and it's my hunting rifle. In other words, if the FACTORY can sell me a Sharps or Anschutz rifle or Browning handgun with a light trigger, why can't I have one on my other guns? The answer? I can, and do, and they're all perfectly safe, they pass the butt smack test, hard bolt slam, you name it. The Canjar single-set trigger on my 1200-yard countersniper rifle breaks in the ounces, but only when I want it to, I have the common sense to keep it from accidentally going off. I'm not afraid of a light trigger, it doesn't make the gun jump out of the safe and kill people wantonly. I even had a webcam set up for a while on my guns, just to prove they don't make the streets run red with blood like the anti-gun crowd said.

People who use light triggers as a scapegoat for ND or AD incidents (ala' Glocks) don't understand the root cause of those events, which is having the trigger finger near or on the trigger when it's not supposed to be there, be it a combat, hunting, target, or plinking situation. How many ND or AD incidents does one see at a benchrest competition?

Have I done trigger jobs under 4 pounds for customers? Yup. And I know those customers, as well as their gun handling sense. Joe Bagadonuts comes to me and wants a 2 pound Shilen trigger in his Remmy 700, I'll ask him why. He'd better have the right answer.

Bottom line: Gun safety is between the ears. Period. If you have an AD or ND with a light-triggered gun, your discipline has failed, because your trigger finger wasn't supposed to be near or on it until you were on target. Nothing's going to save your bacon then, least of all whimpering about the trigger being too light.
 
You answered my question

Thanks, you gave me the exact answer I was looking for. You and I both think alike, please step back and think about what has been said. Not everyone receives the proper training and not everyone that has an accident was the one trained for it's prevention. The Glocks that were brought up were blamed for having too light of a trigger pull and while I agree that the Police didn't receive the proper trainig with them, they were sent to the academy for gun training were they not. I don't know of a Policeman that is allowed on the streets that wasn't myself. They may not have been trained on the Glock specifically, but they were trained on gun safety.

If I am not mistaken, wasn't it Glock that made the trigger pull heavier on their own out of concern for safety? I have a S&W Sigma that is a Glock knock off and it's DAO trigger pull is off the scale on my trigger pull gauge and I can shoot it just fine so it isn't a case where you have to have a light trigger pull for a gun to be used correctly.


You wouldn't give the man that just walked into your place of business a 2 lb trigger pull any quicker than any other gunsmith. You have to know the person just like myself and know that he will be safe with it.

Bob, I don't remember anyone saying that you don't know what you are doing, sorry if you came away feeling like that. This entire post was supposed to be about the guy coming here and asking about his model 700 trigger and whether or not it was adjustable. I won't speak for Harry, but I feel sure that he and I both were approaching it from that standpoint, a walk in off the street that doesn't know very much about his own gun in the first place.

Gewehr98 just said that even he would have to know the guy and get the right answers to his questions before he would do a trigger job for him that was 2lbs and I believe that Bob would have to have the same answers as well.

Now if you think about what Harry was saying that it just isn't necessary for a hunting rifle or service gun to have a trigger pull less than 4lbs, his answer is still correct. Necessary being the key word here, it isn't necessary but if you want yours to be below 4lbs and are trained with it, go for it. No one has said that you cannot have it. I really think we are both on the same page here, it's just that I think you feel that we are saying in no circumstances should you have a gun with a light trigger pull and that is simply not what we said.

Think about what happens with most hunting rifles which is what the question concerned in the first place. Most guys hunt with gloves on in the cold and this is welll known for an accidental discharge because a gloved finger cannot be sensitive enough to detect a light trigger pull in the first place. Also a very light trigger pull done by the owner has on more than one occasion been the culprit of an accidental discharge when the bolt was slammed shut. I also know of a few smiths that have been guilty of doing a TJ and forgot to double check it and sent it out the door and had the same thing happen as well. Bad things happen for no apparent reason most of the time when you are out in the woods or sitting in the Club house and there is usually no one that wants to take the blame for it when it does. I have on more than three different occasions seen an unloaded gun shoot through the roof or floor of the Club House that I used to hunt with and I no longer hunt with them because of this. I have seen numerous clocks on the wall shot by someone that knew his gun was unloaded before he pulled the trigger. I have also seen the results of floor boards being shot through when someone slammed the bolt closed and the transmission being shot and had to walk miles back to the club house because of it as well. The culprit was the owner had done his own trigger job. I have also seen a gun go off when a buddy fell down. I don't know if he had his gun on safe at the time or not, but it still went off.

Things happen out there in the real world and this was the reason I made the statements that I made. Sorry if anyone got offended by my statements, but Sh*t happens everyday, it's just a different day.
 
cntryboy1289,
I agree we have drifted off topic from the question that was ask. This always seems to happen here on the Forum when someone ask how to ajust or do a trigger job. The old debate starts about heavy versus light pull weight on triggers and how dangerous the light triggers are. A statement that I do not agree with. It also seems that by previous implication in other threads there's only a few people in this world that can do a trust worthy trigger job.

Now lets talk about AD's and ND's. An AD is caused by equipment malfunction, this could be from improper adjustment or parts failure. An ND is caused by unsafe an poor gun handling skills. If somone puts their finger on the trigger of a firearm no matter what the pull weight of the trigger and shoots someone or destroys property they did not intend to destroy that's an ND.
I feel an idiot handling a firearm with a heavy trigger pull weight is just as dangerous as an idiot handling a firearm with a light trigger pull weight.
The examples you gave about the hunting camp where some were shooting holes in the floors and ceilings, shooting up clocks, and blowing holes in their transmissions seems to be proof of this. Again I must ask how many of the safe gun handling rules were broken for all these things to be destroyed no matter if it was caused by an ND or an AD.

To clarify what I spoke of earlier, the implication about my knowledge of doing trigger jobs was not on this thread, it was on another and that thread took off just like this one the heavy versus light trigger pull weights.

I'll agree that not everyone may want a light trigger and thats fine, however I'll never agree that a good safe light trigger is any more dangerous than a good heavy one.

Now to answer the original question, can Remington triggers be safely adjusted yes they can. I have quite a few Remington rifles with factory triggers, I have adjusted all of them, the pull weights range from 1.5 pounds to 2.5 pounds. I've done all the test on these rifles to check for the possibility of AD's and not one of them has failed any of the test.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
Thanks Bob

Thanks for clarifying that for me. I certainly didn't think that I had gave you that impression and am glad that I didn't.

To answer your question, all of the ones except the transmission getting shot was stupidity on the folks that were handling the gun. The transmission got shot by a firearm that had the sear engagement set way below what it should have been and this allowed the bolt slamming shut to allow the gun to go off. It was the owners fault for not double checking what he had done, but he was a guy that got on the internet and figured out how to lower his pull down to close to 2 lbs and was happy as a lark about it until he shot out his transmission and we had to walk back out to the club house to get my truck. This same thing has happened to numerous other folks as well with the gun firing when the bolt was slammed shut quickly. This is why I am as adament about the subject here on the net, especially when the guy has to ask if it is even an adjustable trigger in the first place. You just never know when a guy that doesn't fully understand how triggers actaully work is going to adjust it too low and have an accident.

Like you and Gewehr98 both pointed out, gun safety begins between the ears, and yet this is place things go so terribly wrong most of the time to begin with. Any one with a set of stones can lower the trigger pull, it takes someone that knows exactly what he is doing though to make sure it is safe. Take care and good shootin' to you!!
 
What do I do about the rifles I have that don't quite adjust up as far as 4#. Examples being a Remington 541-S and a Cooper Custom Classic .22? Should I pay somebody to replace the factory springs in the triggers? Out of the box they adjusted down as far as 2#, but the upper limit is just short of 4#. Okay, I'm being a wise guy. I am going to leave both of them where they are at 2.25#.

I won't even ask about my Finnfire with the 1.5-ounce Jewell.

Now, about this guy shooting his transmission. Why was the gun loaded and why was he pointing it at the car?

John
 
Every bunch has one

There's always one in every crowd.

To make a long story very short, he closed his bolt after loading it getting ready to hunt. I never said he was the smartest knife in the drawer to begin with.....lol. That was the last straw for me anyway so I left that club very quickly.

I really love it when a bunch of guys brag about their very low triger pull on their hunting rifle though. It sure does impress the hell out of me........

Is this your hunting rifle or your target rifle? It really doesn't matter, it is after all, your rifle. Set it up the way you want it to be set up. I hunt with rifles that have a 3-4lb trigger pull and I shoot them a heck of a lot more than a box of shells a year. I practice with them on a regular basis and know them very well. I also have target guns that have a low pull as well, it really isn't that big of a deal, especially not one to brag and show off about.

Thanks for the laugh though. Please go back and read all of the posts though. Your rifle is the same as everyone else's, it's yours. If you feel comfortable with it, go for it. It just isn't necessary. Necessary means that it has to be that way and one more time for the last time on this subject, It isn't necessary to have a low trigger pull for a hunting rifle or carry piece. 'Nuff said on that, but if any more want to chime in, go right ahead.

It's kind of like showing your rearend to the class, go ahead and go for it, it is afterall, your rearend.
 
Hey, I wouldn't have asked about him if you hadn't brought it up. I was just a little curious because it's not every day that somebody plugs a tranny.

I don't hunt with the Finnfire's trigger set on 1.5 ounces. The Jewell has 3 springs and will adjust up to 3.5 pounds IIRC. The Sako factory trigger is adjustable between 2 and 4 pounds. Looks like Cooper, Remington and Sako think a 2 to 4 pound trigger is safe enough.


"I really love it when a bunch of guys brag about their very low triger pull on their hunting rifle though. It sure does impress the hell out of me........"

What makes you think anybody is trying to impress you? Facts are facts.

I've hunted with my '72 Single-Six that came from the factory with a 2-pound 7/10th-of-an-ounce trigger (love the Lyman trigger gauge.) Of course I don't walk around with it cocked either. I hear they don't make them like that anymore and haven't in a few decades. These days folks fiddle with their guns and who knows how often they end up with a safe, durable trigger pull. I think it would be better for the factories to set them up right in the first place.

OTOH, my Mountie has a 6# pull and I haven't messed with it in 43 years because it breaks cleanly and I'm used to it.

John
 
700 trigger

Dear Souls:
Do I have guns with less than 4# triggers? Yea!
Do I think it makes me a better shooter if I do? No!

My opinion is that a light trigger does one of several things.
1. Makes a weapon more dangerous.
2. Shows the shooter is not expert in trigger manipulation.
3. Light adjustments are motivated by trying to eiminate flinching before or during firing (trigger will be so fast that gun will discharge before I flinch)!

A correctly tuned trigger of 4# will break like a glass rod and anyone can do just as good with that as with a "breath on release."

Double-set triggers are actually slower than conventional, or, Mauser 98 two stage - think about time with a double-set.
Harry B.
 
Advice that heavy triggers are just as accurate as light triggers tells me one thing:

(1) The person suggesting this silliness is not experienced in precision shooting and knows nothing about proper trigger manipulation.
 
be careful now!!!!!!

You might be saying that you cannot shoot accurately without a light trigger pull which is proving what Harry said. LOL, I would hate for you to say that!

I don't remember us saying anything about BR shooting and being as precise as that. In that game, yes a light trigger pull can mean the difference between winning and losing.

What we are referring to is hunting guns and carry guns. If you learn trigger control, you learn how to manipulate it correctly, how much pull you have to exert shouldn't change that. On the other hand if you always pull your head off the stock to see where you are hitting the target and constanly complaining about the pull is too heavy for you to shoot the gun, then most likely you haven't learned trigger control yet. Lightening up the trigger pull for this person isn't really going to help them shoot much better in the ling run because they still are going to have the bad habits that make them pull of the shot in the first place. This can be dangerous as well since they can pull the trigger at the wrong time since they don't actually have to think about the trigger when they pull it. Have a good one!
 
Light triggers have never killed anyone.

People manipulating light triggers when they weren't supposed to have.

My double set triggers on my Sharps and G98 customs are every bit as fast as a single trigger. I pull the set trigger as I get the deer/buffalo/elk in my sights, leaving the hair trigger for the shot. It's a technique thing, mechanical lock time is not an issue.

Speaking of hunting guns with fast, light trigers, how about that Remington E-Tronix experiment they sold for a few years? Somebody ough to tell them the darned things are just too dangerous to be out there in the woods!

My Jewell, Canjar, Shilen, Remington, Dayton, Timney, and Keplinger triggers have been operating safely at the range and on the hunt for decades, with nary an AD or ND. I don't think it's unreasonable to wager that other fine trigger systems have also been stomping the hunting grounds since they've been introduced, again, with nary an accident. Categorically calling light, clean triggers both unsafe and unnecessary smacks of something foul-smelling and far from Gospel truth with respect to responsible firearms owners.
 
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