700 BDL Hates 180's - Help?

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BushmanTahou

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Hey all, First post here. I've got myself a Remington 700 BDL I use for my primary hunting gun. I've only recently gotten in to reloading, but I've already got sort of a conundrum. This rifle will drive tacks with 150 grain bullets (from the factory or hand loaded) but I have yet to find a 180 grain loading that I can get better than a 6" group with at 100 yards. To be fair, I haven't tried putting my own loads together yet, but I was hoping that someone with experience loading for this rifle might be able to chime in. To give you some idea, so far I've tried factory 180gr loads from Winchester (power-points and accu-bond CT's,) Remington (Core-lokt PSP and RN,) and Nosler (Accubond "Trophy Grade") all with similar results. Any ideas of where I should start? I'm more than happy using the 150's for whitetail, but if I go on another elk or moose hunt I'd much prefer to have a bit more bullet - I've been using a 150gr partition factory load so far, but I feel just a tad under-gunned. Thanks!
 
You are not under gunned with a Partition.

If the 180s won't shoot, you should try some 200s since you are delegating those to heavier game. It'll only cost you some powder and a box of bullets.

IMR 4350, RL 17, and VV N560 works for me with the heavies.

I shoot mostly Accubonds, Partitions, and some Woodleigh.
 
Welcome to the forum.

If the groups are spread that wide, standard loads are simply out of synch with optimal barrel times for your gun's barrel. Load tuning is then in order or adding a barrel tuner to the muzzle is. Going either heavier or lighter may fix it. But before we go any further, please tell us what cartridge your rifle is chambered for. Otherwise we can't really suggest anything specific.
 
Wholey agree with Unclenick!

What cartridge?

Your barrel is not liking the speed the "factory" loads are producing.
Handloads with different powders may help.
Along with different COAL.
 
My rifle doesn't shoot 180's as well as 165's, but the difference isn't anywhere near that much. Bullet construction is more important than weight. A tough 150 will get the job done as well or better than a soft 180.
 
I'm sorry! How could I forget the damned cartridge! I'm shooting a .30-06'

For powder, I've got some 4895 on hand right now that I've been using to home-brew M2 ball for my M1, but definitely have room for more powder on the shelf! For a pretty light-duty Whitetail load I've been shooting 46gr of that under a 150gr Interlock with decent results. I've been sticking with CCI Primers so far.
 
I've never had an '06 that wouldn't shoot gnats asses with a 150gr and either of the 4895s. I use mostly the H4895.

I don't shoot 165gr (never have), but either of the 4350s, IMR or H, does well with the 180s, at least for me. Keep in mind that load data is different between the IMRs and the Hs.

I started using H4895 back in 1963 with 150s and have never needed anything else.

I might mention that I had 5 different rifles chambered '06 and all but one shot 10 shots in under 1" @ 100 yds. The one that didn't was a 700BDL. I sold it prolly 20 years ago.
 
If I was handloading 180's for hunting purposes,I'd probably choose a slower powder such as 4350.

I don't doubt you are seeing what you are seeing...I'm not questioning it,but it surprises me that a sound,modern Rem700 without bore damage in 30-06 won't shoot 6 inches at 100 yds with 180 gr bullets. I'd be surprised at worse than
2 1/2 MOA at 100 yds.

A large percentage of milsurps with original barrels will beat 3 MOA.

I might try a thorough cleaning with Bore Tech I might re-torque the guard screws.
You are resting the rifle on the stock forend,with nothing touching the barrel? You don't have a sling swivel screw contacting the barrel?
IMO,there almost has to be something silly going on.

I certainly accept the barrel harmonics theories if we are trying to get from 3 MOA to 1 MOA,but there are shotguns that shoot slugs better than 6 MOA at 100 yds.
When I still had eyes,I could bench my 44 Magnum Ruger SBH 6 MOA at 100 yds on a decent day. With cast bullets!

I've seen original barreled fairly rough Rolling Blocks shoot inside 6 inches.

From the milsurps to the Rolling block I don't think the barrel harmonics are fine tuned.
 
I know it sounds silly...that's why I bought so amny different factory loads trying to find one that worked! That's shooting from a Harris bipod with a Leupold 3x9. Again, the 150s do very well out of the same gun. Can't say that I've ever tried 165s or 220s
 
Consider all options, and what you need, vs. what you want, and then consider what you might gain, and what you might lose.

Ok, simplest & easiest is to check other bullet weights and see how they do.

If you just have to get 180s to shoot better from your rifle, consider that any changes you make MIGHT cost you some of that "tack driving" ability with 150s.

Not saying it will happen, only that it could. All kinds of strange things happen with rifle barrels and ammo. Driving tacks with 150s but no better than 6" groups with 180s is an uncommon situation, lots of guns seriously prefer one bullet over others but that much difference is outside the norm.

Gun collector says, accept it for what it is, and get another 06 for 180s!:rolleyes::D
you can only have too many if you have to carry them all at once..:D
 
I've got a 700 BDL in .30-06. I got pulled for a moose permit some years ago and worked up a 3/4" load using 180 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips at 0.010" off the lands over IMR-4895. I don't recall the charge weight. I thought I would never forget but I loaded plenty and still have 5-10 hunting seasons left. I should have written it down.
 
IMR 4350, along with 180 grn. bullets, have long been an old standard mix for good hunting ammo in the '06 (IMO). I've never used it, but IMR 4064 is supposed to be good propellant, too. I use Hornady bullets exclusively in my three 30-06s, soft points only. Tried and true to fill the freezer.
 
I too am a fan of IMR 4350 for heavier bullets. I also like 165's for the '06. I don't believe you could go wrong with Nosler Partitions.
 
A Remington 700 BDL .30-06 rifling twist is 1 in 10. Not that it matters much. A 165 grain bullet will kill any game in North America. And the .30-06 loves 'em.
Partial to IMR4064 myself. It gives more consistent accuracy than either 4895. Even, or more like especially, out of an M1 Rifle.
IMR4895 with a 180 gives fairly slow velocities. 2,555 FPS to 2,680 FPS. That may be the issue. Even though the .30 M1 with its 174 grain BT bullet ammo, used for testing the M1 Rifle, ran at 2640 FPS. Easier to change bullets than wrestle with the 180s.
 
Keep in mind the M1 Ball ammunition and M1 Type match bullet had its loaded ammunition velocity measured at 78 feet from the muzzle. Based on the BRL's actual measured drag function for this bullet (and not just a ballistic coefficient), to be going 2640 fps at 78 feet from the muzzle, the actual muzzle velocity would be 2691 fps, and at 15 feet from the muzzle (SAAMI standard velocity measuring midpoint), it would be going 2685 fps. The 175 grain Sierra MatchKing is a very close ballistic match to the M1 Type, and, launched just 2 fps slower, will match the older bullet at 78 feet and be within 10 fps of it at 1000 yards, so it's a good choice for a substitute. The slightly wider meplat means it needs to be seated to about 3.290" COL to match the bullet jump of the M1 Type.
 
Well put me in the group that 180 with 6 inch at 100 is more AK-47 or an MN than a modern made rifle let alone one that shoots 150s really good.

One possibility is its got the really long lead in it, finding where the lands are and then a cross check to normal COAL for any bullet would give you an idea.

If its a harmonic its a wild one.

It should shoot almost an load 1.5" at that range.
 
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I have two Remington 700 BDLs in .270, not a far cry from .30-06. One will not group well anything but a 150gr Hornady spire point, while the other does the same thing with a 140gr SST.

I've tried 130gr RemPSP, Hornady 130SST, and Barnes, Nosler, Speer and Sierra in virtually every weight from 100gr to 150gr.

When you start loading that 180 with attention to seating depth and various powders and charges, you might just find what you're looking for.
 
4064 and 165 interlok. not a target load but very close,,interesting with 9 grs more of h4350 same point of impact and group ,so I load the 4064
 
For a quick and easy experiment ,try cutting a strip of target paper and putting it between the barrel and the stock forend right behind the forend tip.
 
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