7.7x58 Jap

[RC20]

Well as a well sliced and diced up country before, I would call it having to make do.

As a well organized (errrrrrr) belligerent from the git go, the Japanese were stunningly inept.

And while I am and many American families truly grateful, the amazingly awful shooting at Taffy 3?

 

[jimbob86]

As a well organized (errrrrrr) belligerent from the git go, the Japanese were stunningly inept.

Considering the staggering changes Japan went through between 1868 and the onset of WW II, it is pretty amazing that they accomplished anything at all ...... consider that they went from a moribund feudal society ..... largely agrarian, with largely iron age tech..... subject to periodic famines and plagues that developed countries has not seen since the end of the Renaissance ...... to a genuine world power capable of constructing the most powerful weapons on earth at the time.

 

[44 AMP]

As a well organized (errrrrrr) belligerent from the git go, the Japanese were stunningly inept.

this is a yes and no kind of thing, depending on what you look at, specifically. WE (the Allies) were also more than a bit ..inept.. on numerous occasions, and fields (tactics, doctrine, etc.)

One place where the US does shine, (a little) is that we tried hard to achieve basic levels of standardization, both within and across the services. Sometimes, we even managed to actually DO it...

Our small arms were much better standardized than the Japanese, or even the Germans, who had standards but also used about every thing they captured, if it still worked, and in some cases, (such as with the SVT 40) they captured enough to equip entire units for which they produced 7.62x54R ammo (and German language training manuals, etc..)

Every nation has produced competent commanders, and some outstanding ones. Also every nation has produced its share of commanders who managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

The Japanese used what, to us, seems a bewildering array of rifle/machinegun rounds, in 6.5 & 7.7mm calibers. From the outside it sure looks like it must have been a nightmare. Upon reflection I think that from the inside, it wasn't so much a nightmare, as a persistent migraine...

Supply screw ups happen to everyone who has supply. But they happen a bit less when there are only two choices to choose from, as opposed to 5 (or more).

Some years ago I watched a "Tales of the Gun" episode about Japanese small arms. They had examples of all the main types (including the rare SMG) and they were all fired using original ammo. What impressed me most was that out of all of them, the ONLY one that fired a full magazine /clip/feed strip, etc. was the Arisaka bolt action. Everyone one of the machine guns, SMG, and pistols all had at least one jam/misfeed/failure to fire, or other malfunction. Now it is possible that the museum guy doing the firing might have added to the situation, but I don't think it was a major factor.

On the other hand, it might explain the Japanese preference for cold steel, and the belief that the warrior spirit would overcome equipment deficiencies...

 

[TruthTellers]

I've been interested in getting an Arisaka because they're seemingly the last good milsurp bolt action rifle that can be found for good prices, unlike Mosins. The issue is the ammo, it's not cheap and common like 7.62x54r is and reloading is the most sensible thing to do.

While 7.7 brass is more available now than it was decades ago, I still would go the route of re-sizing .30-06 cases because you can easily get .30-06 brass and for low prices and once you case form the 7.7, it's set for life and that brass will last your for a while.

 

[44 AMP]

I've been interested in getting an Arisaka because they're seemingly the last good milsurp bolt action rifle that can be found for good prices, unlike Mosins. The issue is the ammo, it's not cheap and common like 7.62x54r is and reloading is the most sensible thing to do.

Good prices? for now...don't take too long...

The issue has always been the ammo. Large numbers of Arisakas came to the US with returning GIs, and some were imported for civilian sale, but there was never any kind of large amount of Milsurp ammo for any of them. Its one reason you see so many of them converted to other calibers.

Moisins, on the other hand have been both unobtainable and cheap and common as dirt, along with the ammo. Before the end of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, Moisin Nagants, SKSs and all the other combloc arms were very rare in the US. About the only ones were war trophy bring backs, and while 7.62x54R ammo could be had, it was scarce and expensive, and, believe it or not, there was a time when nobody made 7.62x39mm ammo in the US and overseas sources were rare.

After the fall of Soviet Communism, the former Warsaw Pact nations dumped shiploads of rifles and ammo on the US market, dirt cheap. We got used to that. Then it basically ended, and as supplies dried up, up went prices.

All the milsurps went through that, or will. priced a Swiss K31 lately? Even the French guns are going up, along with Carcanos....

Making 7.7mm from .30-06 is a bit of a pain, but once done, is done. Use a tubing cutter to take off most of the extra length of the 06 case, it will save on trimming. once trimmed to nearly the right length, run them through the 7.7 sizer, then trim to final length. If they come out just a little short, they will still work. I did about 100rnds that way, before I found some actual 7.7mm brass. That was some years ago, and the 7.7 brass is still waiting in a bag....I might get around to using it, someday...maybe..