7.7x58 jap ammo

No, the base runs just what I said; in reloading 7.7 Jap, the .30-'06/.308/8mm Mauser shell holder is used. But I will clarify my non-interchangeable statement a bit. The 7.7 semi-rimmed will fit into the 7.7mm rimless chamber but the rim won't fit into the bolt face of the Type 99 rifle. So it won't feed from the magazine, and if it is dropped into the chamber the bolt cannot be closed on it so it can't be fired.

The 7.7 rimless rifle cartridge apparently will feed from the strips, but I have been told that the gun will be unreliable because the extractor won't always grab the smaller rim. I cannot test this condition, as I have no Type 99 HMG handy, so I am going by what I have read.

Jim
 
I've used a lot of reformed '06 cases from M2 ball in my 7.7 and can say that it does swell a bit above the web. I generally use them twice and then put them in the recycle bucket.

I've heard people swear they've run surplus '06 in their Arisakas but I have a hard time believing it. I tried and couldn't force an empty '06 case into mine. Well, I suppose I could if I was willing to take a hammer to the bolt...

The slot in my Type 99 is a little too wide for '03 clips, but they'll work if you don't get in a hurry. Arisaka clips (I wish I had some) might be too wide for loading a '03 rifle.
 
The clips are not identical, one difference being the position of the lugs, and the fit in the other rifle is not perfect, but will work.

Of course, firing .30-'06 in a 7.7x58 chamber is impossible for the reason you mention. It would take a big hammer.

FWIW, there is only one Japanese rifle clip; the 7.7 and 6.5 use the same clip.

Jim
 
Unfortunately I don't have an example of a Japanese military 7.7 rifle round in my collection.

"The 7.7 rimless rifle cartridge apparently will feed from the strips, but I have been told that the gun will be unreliable because the extractor won't always grab the smaller rim. I cannot test this condition, as I have no Type 99 HMG handy, so I am going by what I have read."

The Type 99 was a magazine fed light/medium machine gun. The Type 92 was based on the Hotchkiss pattern and used the 30-round clips.

I have, around here somewhere, a 30-round clip for the Type 92.
 
The Type 99 was a magazine fed light/medium machine gun.
Click to expand...

My Type 99 is a bolt action rifle with an internal magazine that holds 5 rounds and can be loaded from a stripper clip or one at a time from the top.

If Japan had two Type 99's it would explain why I'm having trouble understanding the business about it feeding from a clip.
 
Sport,

Sorry, I was addressing Jim's comment regarding Japanese automatic weapons.

The Type 99 is a Japanese Arisaka rifle.

The Type 99 is also a Japanese magazine fed light machine gun.

The Type 99 is also a Japanese 81mm mortar.

The Type 99 is also a Japanese hand grenade (the "Kiska" model, where it was first encountered)

And finally, the Type 99 is also a Japanese 20mm cannon used primarily as an aircraft weapon.

There may well have been other Type 99s, as well.
 
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Right on the machineguns. My bad, I had the Type 92 (Hotchkiss type HMG), and the Type 99 ("Jap Bren"), reversed. Anyway the 7.7 semi-rimmed was made for the Hotchkiss type and that is what is in those feed strips.* The latter took the same rimless round as the Type 99 rifle.

Sport45, the confusion comes because the Japanese used the date of adoption, as the U.S. did until the 1930's. Every firearm adopted in 1939 (2599 in the old Japanese calendar) was a "Type 99". As Mike says, a Japanese saying "Type 99" would have to say "Type 99" what. We have the same problem with, for example, Model 1917, which could be a rifle, one of two different revolvers, or a Browning machinegun.

*Edited to add that I just looked at the box and even I, with almost no Japanese, can read "Type 92".

Jim
 
It's also the same as saying M 1 in US parlance.

For example...

M1 Garand

M1 Carbine

M1 Helmet

M1 Combat Car/M1A2 Light Tank

M1 81mm Mortar

M1 Submachine Gun (simplified Thompson variant, quickly replaced by the even simpler M2)

And the list goes on and on...
 
M1 Submachine Gun (simplified Thompson variant, quickly replaced by the even simpler M2)
Click to expand...

ah...that would be the M1A1, IIRC, Mike....and then the much simpler M3 and M3A1 Greasegun....

Military designations are such fun....
When someone says M4, are they talking a bout a 5.56mm carbine, or a Sherman tank?:D

And is a P-38 a 9mm pistol, or a fighter plane? OR a GI can opener?
Yes, depending on context

and there is at least one other Jap type 99 that I know of, the Aichi Type 99 dive bomber (known as the "Val" to US forces)

I'm sure there's more, we just have to find them...type 99 chopsticks? M1 Bootlace?
 
Definitely get the chamber of that rifle identified. It is not 7.7x58mm Jap.

If you're not familiar with the process of taking a chamber cast (or don't have the proper measuring tools), take it to a competent gunsmith. They'll take a cast, ID the chamber, and can stamp the barrel for the appropriate cartridge (required by law).

And/or...
Take it back to the shop you bought it from, and tell them you're getting hit in the face by debris, every time you shoot it.
If they don't offer to take the chamber cast for free, push the issue. If they still refuse, you have a very shady dealer that should not be trusted.
 
And/or...
Take it back to the shop you bought it from, and tell them you're getting hit in the face by debris, every time you shoot it.
If they don't offer to take the chamber cast for free, push the issue. If they still refuse, you have a very shady dealer that should not be trusted.
Click to expand...

Or drop a .30-06 in the chamber to show that you know it is definately not a 7.7x58 and only know that it is at least as large as a .30-06. Go on to tell him that it is not a .30-06 since the bore is at least 7.7mm.
 
Just to out-nitpick, the P-38 was a fighter plane, the "P" standing for "Pursuit", the old name for a fighter. The P.38 was a German WWII pistol. The period was correct because the "P" was an abbreviation for Pistole. The postwar version was just the P38 (no period). I haven't checked on the can opener.

Jim
 
oh yes, James, very correct.

And FWIW, my "expert" called me tonight and told me there were four (4) "type 99" aircraft in service with the WWII Japanese Army, and a couple others with the Navy. Type 99 was a very popular designation, and bascially could refer to anythingy designed or adopted in 1940.
 
'Type 99 was a very popular designation, and bascially could refer to anythingy designed or adopted in 1940.'

No, it was 1939, as Jim noted, as 1939 in the Gregorian calendar was 2599 in the Japanese imperial calendar.

And, it wasn't anything designed in a particular year, it was the year that it entered military service.

Additional examples, the Type 0 fighter, or Japanese Zero, which entered service in 1940. It got a hell of a lot worse later in the war, though, when another system was adopted on top of that system...

The old Japanese system of nomenclature used to use the then current emperor's name and a numeral designation equal to his years on the throne.

For example, the Arisaka 6.5mm rifle was the Meiji (emperor) Type 38 (years of his reign).
 
And of course, the fighter should really have been called the "00" but they dropped one "0" and called it the Zero (Japanese designation). That designation caught on, and Americans almost always called it the "Zero", even though the official Allied code name was the "Zeke".) The actual Japanese designation was A6Mx, with the x being a number indicating a change. Minor changes were indicated by an additional "model" number. Major changes to the basic type were designated by a letter. The Zeros used at Pearl Harbor were designated as A6M2 Model 21.

Jim
 
forming 7.7 from 30/06

A reloader/shooter/collector purchased a 7.7 Japanese that had been modified. He ask a question about cases, being concerned about the price of cases he expressed an interest in forming cases. After everyone told him everything they knew about Japanese rifles I got involved, helping him was not something that could be done on a forum so I contacted him and gave him my contact information. I offered to form cases for his 7.7 for free, he agreed but was reluctant. I formed 80 cases, I kept 2 from each box in case there was a question.
I used new and once fired cases, I used 4 different head stamps. I formed the cases with a 308 Winchester forming die, I formed the cases long from the head of the case to the shoulder then full length sized the cases with A Herters 7.7 Japanese full length sizer die.

When finishing the full length sizing process I screwed the die down to shell holder on the first 20 cases, then I backed the die off the shell holder .005” for the next 20, I backed the die off .009” to size the the next 20 cases, for the last 20 I backed the die off the shell holder .014”, I mailed the cases to him. He sent the results to me, he said the first set chambered so he loaded them, he said the next set chambered with slight resistance to bolt closing so he loaded them, he then said the third set would not allow the bolt to close so he full length sized them and he loaded that set, same for the fourth set. he full length sized them and then loaded them also, the last 2 sets required trimming.

He lives just west of Ft. Worth, TX., he had a couple more questions so I made arrangements for him to meet me at the Dallas Market Hall gun show, by the time he got to the show he had fired all the cases at least 3 times each. He had some gun parts he needed checked out so he bought them with him, he was given an opinion and introduced to resource people.

He had a question about the forming process, he wanted to know how I knew his chamber was go-gage length as in the first set chambered with no resistance to bolt closing, I informed him I did not have a clue what condition the chamber was in, I explained to him I formed cases that matched the length of a a minimum length chamber, a go-gage length chamber, a no go-gage length chamber and a field reject chamber, all that was required of him was to let me know which set chambered. It did not take him anytime at all to catch on. Again, if I had one forming die it would be the 308 Winchester, if I had two forming dies the second one would still be in the 308 W family like the 7mm08 or the 243 Winchester etc..

F. Guffey
 
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my bad, wrote 40 when I meant 39.

Another interesting tidbit, for equipment dating 1940, the Japanese Army used "type 100" while the Navy used "type 0". probably to reduce the confusion, although it seems that reducing confusion was not something the Japanese miliary excelled in, evidenced by 3 (or more?) different types of 7.7mm ammo, not interchangable. And other things....

Supply officer had to have been one of the most aggrivating and frustrating positions in the Japanese military....
 
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