7.62x39 or 30-30 for Deer Hunting
- Thread starter YankeeIronSights
- Start date
A typical Winchester 30-30 is not more accurate than a good SKS.
They are about the same.
Now AKs can run from very good to pretty bad depending on the quality of the bore and the looseness of the chambers. I have shot AKs that would hold 2" at 100 yards and some that would barely hold 6" at 100 yards.
This accuracy (or lack thereof) is a function of the ammo, and the individual rifle it is fired in. You cannot make a broad statement about them all at one time.
I have seen a few Marlin 336s that were amazingly accurate, shooting about MOA, but those are rare. I have never seen an SKS or an AK that would do that, but as a rule the SKS and the Marlin and Winchesters are about equal in accuracy.
Also just as a side note, if we look at REAL velocities from 20" 30-30 rifles (I do, as I have a chronograph) we find that the average velocity of a 150 grain bullet is about 2200 FPS not the advertized 2400.
If we look at the actual velocity of the 154 grain 7.62X39 it truly is about 2250FPS. So the 30-30 is NOT more powerful in this case. The 30-30 does have an advantage of having 170 grain bullets available for it however. So in that way the 30-30 may be a "better" gun for hunting. The jackets of the Russian 154 grain bullets are quite thick and these bullets hold their weight super well. In fact they are too tough for some used because at longer ranges (over 100 yards) they may not open up much at all. Whether the 170 gr 30-30 will penetrate better than the 154 grain Russian I can't say, but I can say the expansion of the 170 gr 30-30 is more reliable.
All in all, I would say that for a "one gun-many jobs" application I would take an accurate AK or an SKS, over a lever action 30-30. The AK is Shorter. Both rifles are as reliable or more so than the 30-30 and use less expensive ammo. The 7.62X39 is a bit flatter shooting. Both the AK and the SKS are MUCH better if you need to fight off the hordes of charging Red Chinese (unlikely….we hope) and the 7.62X39 with the 154 grain bullets is just as effective as the 150 gr 30-30.
But in all honesty, I just like long barreled Marlin 30-30s and that would be my choice. For not good reason other than liking the rifle better.
They are about the same.
Now AKs can run from very good to pretty bad depending on the quality of the bore and the looseness of the chambers. I have shot AKs that would hold 2" at 100 yards and some that would barely hold 6" at 100 yards.
This accuracy (or lack thereof) is a function of the ammo, and the individual rifle it is fired in. You cannot make a broad statement about them all at one time.
I have seen a few Marlin 336s that were amazingly accurate, shooting about MOA, but those are rare. I have never seen an SKS or an AK that would do that, but as a rule the SKS and the Marlin and Winchesters are about equal in accuracy.
Also just as a side note, if we look at REAL velocities from 20" 30-30 rifles (I do, as I have a chronograph) we find that the average velocity of a 150 grain bullet is about 2200 FPS not the advertized 2400.
If we look at the actual velocity of the 154 grain 7.62X39 it truly is about 2250FPS. So the 30-30 is NOT more powerful in this case. The 30-30 does have an advantage of having 170 grain bullets available for it however. So in that way the 30-30 may be a "better" gun for hunting. The jackets of the Russian 154 grain bullets are quite thick and these bullets hold their weight super well. In fact they are too tough for some used because at longer ranges (over 100 yards) they may not open up much at all. Whether the 170 gr 30-30 will penetrate better than the 154 grain Russian I can't say, but I can say the expansion of the 170 gr 30-30 is more reliable.
All in all, I would say that for a "one gun-many jobs" application I would take an accurate AK or an SKS, over a lever action 30-30. The AK is Shorter. Both rifles are as reliable or more so than the 30-30 and use less expensive ammo. The 7.62X39 is a bit flatter shooting. Both the AK and the SKS are MUCH better if you need to fight off the hordes of charging Red Chinese (unlikely….we hope) and the 7.62X39 with the 154 grain bullets is just as effective as the 150 gr 30-30.
But in all honesty, I just like long barreled Marlin 30-30s and that would be my choice. For not good reason other than liking the rifle better.
The 30-30 was the original do it all rifle for homesteaders for a reason. The bulletproof design and caliber makes it capable of taking any game in North America. Personally the Lever action 30-30 way outclasses the other choice for hunting. Even the 30-30 caliber alone is THE legend for deer hunting. If you want a weekend commando rifle then that is another topic. Look for a old lever gun and you will know what real quality feels like.
Boomer58cal
New member
You're right about the factory ammo, factory 7.62x39 is generally loaded hotter than factory 30-30, but I've had loaded both and the 30-30 will easily make an extra 100-200 fps with hand loads. The main difference is case capacity, the 30-30 will easily hold an extra 4 or 5 grains of powder.
Hornady Leverevolution with 140-160g bullets has easily outperformed any 7.62x39 ammo I've come across.
YMMV
Boomer
I'd probably go with an SKS or a new Mini-30 with the heavier profile barrel. Apparently they are significantly more accurate than the older Mini's.
The difference in power between 7.62x39 and 30-30 isn't that great with factory loads. Remember, that most 7.62x39 ammo is chronographed through 16'' barrels, one of the most common barrel lengths for this caliber, where as 30-30 is often chrono'd through significantly longer barrels. From load data on the web I am seeing about 2300-2400fps through a 24'' barrel with a 150 grain projectile in .30-30. Where-as through a 'Kalashnikov' I am seeing 150 grain loads listed at around 2150-2250fps for the 7.62x39. 30-30 has about 150-200fps advantage with a barrel that is roughly 8'' longer. Cut the 30-30 barrel down to 16'' and the velocity would be so close, it wouldn't matter.
You also have to take into account that the 7.62russian often uses spitzers as opposed to round and flat nosed bullets. Meaning the 30-30 bullets will tend to lose velocity faster. Even the 'pointed' 30-30 bullets typically have lower BC's than the spitzers in 7.62x39, my guess is that the 7.62russian bullets tend to have longer Ogive than the 'pointed' 30-30 bullets, making a measurable difference in BC.
Hornady's 160 grain FTX 30-30 bullet has a BC of .33
Hornady's .312 cal (yes I realize this isn't the exact diameter of the .310 that the 7.62x39 uses but Hornady only makes 123 grain bullets in .310) 150 grain bullet has a BC of .361 despite the 30-30 bullet having a 10 grain weight advantage and smaller diameter, which is another advantage, when comparing BC.
The 123 grain V-Max/Z-max is barely trailing behind the 30-30 'spitzer' with a G1 BC of .295 despite the 160 grain .30-30 bullet having a 37 grain weight advantage and being .002'' smaller in diameter.
The difference in power between 7.62x39 and 30-30 isn't that great with factory loads. Remember, that most 7.62x39 ammo is chronographed through 16'' barrels, one of the most common barrel lengths for this caliber, where as 30-30 is often chrono'd through significantly longer barrels. From load data on the web I am seeing about 2300-2400fps through a 24'' barrel with a 150 grain projectile in .30-30. Where-as through a 'Kalashnikov' I am seeing 150 grain loads listed at around 2150-2250fps for the 7.62x39. 30-30 has about 150-200fps advantage with a barrel that is roughly 8'' longer. Cut the 30-30 barrel down to 16'' and the velocity would be so close, it wouldn't matter.
You also have to take into account that the 7.62russian often uses spitzers as opposed to round and flat nosed bullets. Meaning the 30-30 bullets will tend to lose velocity faster. Even the 'pointed' 30-30 bullets typically have lower BC's than the spitzers in 7.62x39, my guess is that the 7.62russian bullets tend to have longer Ogive than the 'pointed' 30-30 bullets, making a measurable difference in BC.
Hornady's 160 grain FTX 30-30 bullet has a BC of .33
Hornady's .312 cal (yes I realize this isn't the exact diameter of the .310 that the 7.62x39 uses but Hornady only makes 123 grain bullets in .310) 150 grain bullet has a BC of .361 despite the 30-30 bullet having a 10 grain weight advantage and smaller diameter, which is another advantage, when comparing BC.
The 123 grain V-Max/Z-max is barely trailing behind the 30-30 'spitzer' with a G1 BC of .295 despite the 160 grain .30-30 bullet having a 37 grain weight advantage and being .002'' smaller in diameter.
Boomer58cal
New member
I've chrono'ed handloads of both out of 20" barrels( well 20" & 20.5" ) and the 30-30 will easily outperform the 7.63x39 with 150g bullets by over 100 fps.
Boomer
Edit...
I was just looking at Hogdens load data page and their hottest 150g load for 7.62x39 runs 2192 fps and their 30-30 150g loads hits 2512 fps. Both with 24 inch barrels. Just food for thought.
Boomer
Edit...
I was just looking at Hogdens load data page and their hottest 150g load for 7.62x39 runs 2192 fps and their 30-30 150g loads hits 2512 fps. Both with 24 inch barrels. Just food for thought.
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Not that OP asked, but I thought I'd mention that Buffalo Bore has .357 magnum ammo that they list at 158gr @ 2153 fps (out of a Marlin carbine w/ 18.5" barrel). If this data is accurate, it's sort of in the same ball park as the options Boomer listed. With the advances in powders and bullets over time, it's likely more potent than older .30-30 loads that accounted for thousands of deer decades ago.
A .357 carbine is definitely a step down as a deer rifle, but it could do the job. For other purposes--HD, casual target shooting, and even small game hunting (with 38 specials)--it could do well. With standard ammo, it's cheaper to shoot than .30-30s. Its shorter length and higher capacity might make it preferable to a .30-30 for HD.
If deer hunting was my top priority (as it seems to be for the OP based on the subject heading), I'd take a .30-30, but if other uses are more important, I'd consider a .357 carbine along with the SKS or Mini-30.
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psychopuppy1
New member
I would love the CZ carbine! No doubt it would drop a deer!
Boomer58cal
New member
My friends Remington 788 in 30-30 really came alive as a deer gun with 150g Hornady SST's.
Boomer
bamaranger
New member
Mini
I'd buy the Mini if money were not an option, and the lever if trying to save a few bucks and didn't intend to shoot much.
Somebody a lot more savvy than me has declared the Mini30 the new American carbine (or words to that effect) and I agree.
Hey I like levers, and a lever 30-30 would very well accomplish what you describe. But I think the mini30 is more versatile, as long as the game you point it at is not much bigger than whitetail, bbear and hogs.
The mini will take a scope easily, and should come with rings. There is a defined support net with Ruger, though I am not a fan of the the "New Ruger". Ruger does sell a factory h-cap mag now (20 rds) which is pricey but works. There is a world of aftermarket accessories, to include folding stock, which will not happen with a traditional lever. Import FMJ ammo is affordable, and good quality hunting ammo is no more than the .30-30.
My Mini30 is suitably accurate to take the noted game out to 150 or so, and will shoot good ammo into 3 MOA or less at 100, and that is all I expect from it. R/P 125's show promise for less, but I only ever bought a box and then started loading for the rifle.
I am not a fan of the SKS, especially at the going prices. For $100 bucks they made a good beater and truck rifle. Too long and heavy for what they were supposed to be...a carbine, but affordable. Not now. And not for me.
I'd buy the Mini if money were not an option, and the lever if trying to save a few bucks and didn't intend to shoot much.
Somebody a lot more savvy than me has declared the Mini30 the new American carbine (or words to that effect) and I agree.
Hey I like levers, and a lever 30-30 would very well accomplish what you describe. But I think the mini30 is more versatile, as long as the game you point it at is not much bigger than whitetail, bbear and hogs.
The mini will take a scope easily, and should come with rings. There is a defined support net with Ruger, though I am not a fan of the the "New Ruger". Ruger does sell a factory h-cap mag now (20 rds) which is pricey but works. There is a world of aftermarket accessories, to include folding stock, which will not happen with a traditional lever. Import FMJ ammo is affordable, and good quality hunting ammo is no more than the .30-30.
My Mini30 is suitably accurate to take the noted game out to 150 or so, and will shoot good ammo into 3 MOA or less at 100, and that is all I expect from it. R/P 125's show promise for less, but I only ever bought a box and then started loading for the rifle.
I am not a fan of the SKS, especially at the going prices. For $100 bucks they made a good beater and truck rifle. Too long and heavy for what they were supposed to be...a carbine, but affordable. Not now. And not for me.
I've had a Marlin 336C .30-30 for over twenty years, and have used it exclusively for Whitetail Deer hunting. I view it as a 100 - 150 yard and in rifle, and it is capable of superb accuracy.
Where I currently live, semi-autos can NOT be used for hunting, but I do have a couple of Russian SKS's that I plink with at the range. While not quite as accurate as the Marlin, I think it makes a good all purpose rifle. I don't know much about the Mini 30 other than what I have read, and that is a mixed bag.
Where I currently live, semi-autos can NOT be used for hunting, but I do have a couple of Russian SKS's that I plink with at the range. While not quite as accurate as the Marlin, I think it makes a good all purpose rifle. I don't know much about the Mini 30 other than what I have read, and that is a mixed bag.
Gunplummer
New member
Before the big invasion of foreign Russian and Chinese junk there were no 7.62 bolt guns available. I cut and welded an Arisaka action and added a "Chamber area" to a .311 7.7 barrel. The gun accepts mini -.30 magazines. I tried factory ammo and got not bad results. I went deer hunting and loaded up 150 grain .303 bullets and got not real bad results. I loaded up .308 bullets (Remington Corlokt) and the results were unbelieveable. I pity any horse fly that sits on my target at 100 yards. I have shot a few deer with this gun (One right between the eyes @ about 70-80 yards) and broke a shoulder on one that was running past me. That deer went right down. If you load I would not go 30-30. I don't know how accurate a mini-.30 is, but there are a lot of rumors started by one bad rifle. How about an AR in 7.62x39?
Back to the op for all around only ONE rifle I'd go with the semi auto mini 30. However I think every one need at least one lever gun. My way of solving that dilemma would be to buy both & buying the mini first.
I will also mention that I'm a fan of the SKS and they are NOT junk. Just very underpriced & under valued historically. Even at current pricing they're still the best bang for the buck out there.
So to again answer your question, buy the mini then later get the 30-30. I would be willing to bet the 7.62 will be shot the most no matter which type you get.
I will also mention that I'm a fan of the SKS and they are NOT junk. Just very underpriced & under valued historically. Even at current pricing they're still the best bang for the buck out there.
So to again answer your question, buy the mini then later get the 30-30. I would be willing to bet the 7.62 will be shot the most no matter which type you get.
Dirty_Harry
New member
Just food for thought, but you could buy a Marlin 336 30-30 and an SKS close to what you would pay for a Mini-30.
I have never heard anything that great about Mini-30's. I would love to have one to try out though. I also hear the new ones are more accurate.
My Marlin 336 in .35 is a MOA rifle at 100 yards with LE ammo. It is not that hard to find another Marlin as accurate.
You could just buy a springfield Socom and be done with it!
I have never heard anything that great about Mini-30's. I would love to have one to try out though. I also hear the new ones are more accurate.
My Marlin 336 in .35 is a MOA rifle at 100 yards with LE ammo. It is not that hard to find another Marlin as accurate.
You could just buy a springfield Socom and be done with it!
Its an easy choice for me. I would pick the 30-30 lever action hands down over any semi-auto. The 30-30 has been killing game bigger than deer for over a hundred and fifteen years. I reload and like to recover my brass. I can load light loads or lead bullet loads that do not rely on gas pressure to operate the action. And if I were silly enough to bust off a full power rifle round in my house I am certain the 30-30 would do the job. But I have a winchester 1200 pump with slugs and buckshot that will do a better job for home defense. And Shotgun Joe told me thats all I need.
YankeeIronSights
New member
This forum is awesome. Thanks for all the great advice. After considering your suggestions, I went ahead and bought the new in box Ruger Mini 30 (Model 5806). I paid $850.00 out the door. At first, it sounds expensive, but I know it will gain value over time because these rifles are difficult to find in New England. It included two 5 round magazines, 2 scope rings and a scope rail. It looks like the one on this link: http://www.ruger.com/products/miniThirty/models.html
I will share a range report soon.
I am considering buying a Marlin lever action rifle chambered in 30-30 in the future because your comments made me consider the importance of having caliber alternatives for times when ammo becomes scarce.
I already own a Yugo SKS that is one of my favorite range guns, but don't want to use it for hunting because It is too heavy and I don't want to alter it (remove the bayonet).
It looks great as it is...
Thanks again for all the input.
I will share a range report soon.
I am considering buying a Marlin lever action rifle chambered in 30-30 in the future because your comments made me consider the importance of having caliber alternatives for times when ammo becomes scarce.
I already own a Yugo SKS that is one of my favorite range guns, but don't want to use it for hunting because It is too heavy and I don't want to alter it (remove the bayonet).
It looks great as it is...
Thanks again for all the input.