686 vs. 686P

Well, having had more than a "baker's dozen" of L-frame .357's, I feel somewhat qualified to comment on this...ALL of the SIX-shot "L's" that I have had were UNIFORMLY well-timed...locked up PRIOR TO hammer-fall in DA mode, trigger-pull seemed UNIFORM all the way around the cylinder in DA, etc. I've had SEVEN of the "686 Pluses", and TWO of them were less than perfect in the "timing" department...the first was the "first one on the block", so to speak...literally, the first one I saw right after their introduction...so, I MAY NOT have inspected it as critically as I would have normally, due to the "WOW--NEAT NEW TOY" factor...IT would not "pre-time" on TWO chambers in DA right out of the box...being THOROUGHLY disgusted--as well as having found ANOTHER "Plus" that WAS right--I slunk off to Franklin's in Athens, GA, and traded it on a nice Sako rifle--hadda' console myself, after all!!!
The second "Plus" was one that WAS RIGHT when purchased, but after 3,000 or so rounds--AND a "so-so" action job from a local " 'smith"--it went "out of time"...what this tells me is that the hand/ratchet interface is BOTH more critical--AND more "sensitive" to wear/abuse, for lack of a better word, on the seven shooters, than on the six-shot "L's"...that being said, I've got TWO "Pluses" that have had MORE rounds thru them than the one that went "out of time" at 3,000 rounds, and are still running GREAT...I think that, IF you LIKE the SEVEN-SHOT concept, you just need to be very CAREFUL--even PICKY--when buying one. Do that, and I believe that you'll be happy with the seven-shooter!!!....mikey357
 
A picky addendum...
Locked up tight prior to hammer fall is good.......having the chamber in line with the barrel is good too.

Sam
 
Sam...In my experience, with the NEWER, CNC-machined cylinders--the ones with the "new-style" extractor--IF they "lock-up", the chamber IS in line w/the barrel...the CNC-made cylinders ARE that GOOD!!!...BTW, I HAVE "range-rodded" a BUNCH of revo's over the last dozen or so years, and you ARE right...SOMETIMES, just 'cause they "lock-up" DOES NOT mean that they "line up"....mikey357
 
One thing that has not been mentioned, and I believe it is still true, is that the 6 shot model has cylinder notches over the weakest part of the cylinder. The plus has them offset, like on a Ruger. This means the plus can tolerate higher pressures in its cylinder before you have problems. This shouldn't be a problem, but it is something to ponder. Of course, its another reason I go with Ruger GP100s.
 
CNC is the way to go if you are going to make a bunch of something. The precision of the part is still dependant on a machinist operating the machine. The best programmer can not forcast tool, bed, ways etc drift while operating. An operator can make parts. A machinist can catch tolerance drift at the tendancy level and compensate before the parts start getting out of spec.

I have seen two CNC cylinders that did show tool chatter and/or enough misalignment to make a timing difference. I have seen several of the very late ones that had no two chamber mouths the same size. Tool wear that wasn't nipped early enough.

Sam
 
Well, maybe I need to wander on down to the local smoke-pole emporium...I've got just three or four S&W's that have the frame-mounted firing pins...not real fond of 'em, BTW...but I had not previously noticed such variations in the CNC-produced cylinders from Roosevelt Ave.--I'll hafta' take a look-see, I recon....mikey357
 
Deuce,

Everyone has pretty well covered your basic questions.

However the next level question is "What are you going to use it for?". I got the 7-shot because I was not in action pistol competition (IPSC, ICORE, IDPA) at that time and thought the 7th shot would be a neat joke on any unscheduled visitors in the home.

If you do intend to get into the action pistol competition you will find the 6 shot, 4" barrel version fits the rules better. Except for ICORE, of course. ICORE competitors would go for the 7-shot L frame or an 8-shot N frame.
 
Someone mentioned the 6 shot 686's having the cylinder notch directly over the chambers while the 7 shot versions have them offset. However, it seems to me that the 6 shot version should have more mass between chambers with one less hole in the same size cylinder.

I never worry about cylinder failure regardless. I would not pick a GP100 over a 686 because of offset cylinder notches. Unless their manufacturing process has changed the S&W cylinder is a forged component where the Ruger's is a casting. Having owned both revolvers at the same time I was able to use the same speed loader for both guns so the GP did not have a cylinder size advantage.
 
Guy and others,

You're right ... I have gotten a lot of excellent feedback here.

THANK YOU.

As for the gun's use ... I have very little interest in competition shooting ... I just enjoy shooting my handguns once in while. As I've stated, I own an Anaconda, and, having owned one for several years, in spite of my fondness for my H&K USP, I have a certain appreciation for a large frame revolver. I own a S&W 360 .357, but, now I'd like a "real" .357 (not that there's anything wrong with my 360 ... well, you should know what I mean). As for CC, it's currently unavailable to mere mortals here in MN, so, of course, I don't carry now, however, there is a bill in the works (MNans see http://www.mnccrn.org) and I do happen to have a couple likely guns ready for such an application (ex. S&W 360 .357 and Kahr P9 Covert) ... I certainly don't wish to begin a debate on "appropriate CC gun" here ... I know many would prefer a 686 or somewhere in between ... to each his own. For me, it's one of those "there's nothing like the feel of a nice 686 in your hand" deals, and, for me, a 686 just has to be 4".

I will be checking the local gun shops monthly watching for a 686 or 686P in, as near as I can tell, flawless condition. I appreciate the warnings regarding the 7-shot, but, based on their context, I don't believe it will be as much of an issue for me. Regardless, it's a toss-up for me anyhow so the first 4" 686 (P or not) I see is mine.

Villian, Colt quoted me $1150 msrp on a SS 4" Python which I translate to roughly $800. I'd prefer a flawless 686 for $500, but, if I can't find one by the end of the year, I might "bite the bullet" (I guess you guys hear that one a lot around here).

THANKS AGAIN for all the good input.

Sam, I wouldn't mind a little more detail on exactly what to look for (pics if you've got 'em) ... if you've got the time and energy, of course ... otherwise, thanks anyway.

Later.
 
If you want a "real" .357 Smith. Get a Model 27. N (large) frame, stout enough to handle all the loads. Work of art, lifetime gun made out of real steel. With grips that fit your hand and style they are a joy to shoot.

Sorry, don't do puter pics.

Sam
 
I've read all the above posts, but may still have missed it. If so, I apologize.

To the best of my knowledge, the 686P is *not* the 7-shot version of the 686, it's the *Ported* model. The 7-shooter is a 686+. Hmmm. Is there a 686+P (ported 7-shot)? No pun intended.

Jon B
 
Even info from a mouthy horse should be second sourced.

I have Smith catalogs from sequential years that show...686 is L (medium) frame.....686 is L (large) frame.

Sam
 
101SE......second cylinder and have both ?
Seems to me that hand length and travel would be wrong for one of the cylinders.

Sam
 
C.R. S&W said all that was needed was the 6 round cylinder for my 686p. They said the hand was the same shape and size and would engage ratchet stars in normal way,just a little longer time between them. This is what "they said".
 
Well, when you peruse the S&W revo parts listings, you will notice that the hands ( or "ratchet advancing pawl" in Governmentese ) for the 686 "Plus" and the REGULAR 686 have DIFFERENT part numbers...I recall from my visit to 2100 Roosevelt Ave. back in '98 that one of the "charge" gunsmiths in the repair section told me that the hand for the seven-shooter INTERFACES differently with the ratchet than the hand on the six-shooter...hhmmm...clear as MUD, right? I'll investigate further...
....mikey357
 
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