686 vs. 686P

D

Deuce

New member
Apparently I worded my last post improperly as I got replies ... just not to my question ... so I'll try again.

Aside from the cylinders and the action to rotate them, is there any difference between the 686 and 686P? Also, recently, has anyone seen stars on NIB S&W revolvers that look like they've been through a blender?

I don't care about the "Agreement" or how much you like or dislike yours or anyone else's S&W.

If you're not familiar with both the 686 and the 686P, or if you haven't seen significant damage to NIB S&W revolvers, then you have nothing informative to tell me in response to this post.

If you have responded to my previous post and are offended by this post, please don't be. I really would like an answer to my question and someone is less likely to respond if there are already several responses.

Thank you.
 
Deuce,

You should try using the "Search" feature. The 686 vs. 686P thing has come up before and you can probably find some information there.

As far as people not answering your question in your original post, you need to calm down a little. I looked through the responses and thought they adequately addressed some of the issues you raise. No one was being heavy-handed in preaching to you the politics of S&W. On the contrary I thought they were pretty even-handed. Having said that, you should know that if you inquire about new S&W products on this forum, you're going to hear about the "agreement". Most newcomers to TFL aren't informed about their treachary and many of us therefore feel obligated to let them know the truth.

BTW, the fact that you don't appear to care much about your Second Amendment rights is of great concern. Care to explain why?
 
rock_jock,

I tried the search as you suggested and found 3 matches for "686 difference" (which I thought would get the most likely matches) and I found 3 matches ... 2 were this one and the other one I posted ... the other was some guy looking for a .357 and considering a 686 and the thread briefly discussed that some guys liked having 7 shots, others didn't need 7 over 6, and someone suggested that the trigger on the 686P sucked.

Sorry, I didn't do the search first, but, now that I have, and didn't find an answer, I feel my question is still valid. If you, or anyone else doesn't want to answer it because you think I didn't search hard enough, then don't answer it.

Also, patronizing someone (ex. "you need to calm down") is a sure-fire way of pissing someone off and I don't appreciate it. I don't need to calm down ... I'm not excited. I asked a simple question, and, in response, most tried to convince me that a S&W was a bad choice due to "the agreement" and "quality concerns", which might be fine if choosing S&W or not was up for debate. Also, I did not need convincing that the 686 is a good gun and what might be nice about it. If I could find a gun shop with both a 686 and a 686P, I could determine the differences myself. I was hoping someone who reads this forum might already know.

Also, I never said anyone was "heavy-handed" or "preaching" ... don't try to make me out like I'm bitching out everyone who responded to my other post.

As for you, you sure are high-maintenance ... I was just trying to get a simple answer to a simple question and now I've got to type all this sh!t just because you're trying to make a big thing out of this. And, speaking of preaching ... guess what? If you're a moderator or administrator and you've decided I'm not worthy, then give me the boot, otherwise, I don't know who died and made you the "guardian of everything sacred in this forum". If you didn't have a valid response to my question, maybe you just shouldn't have replied.

And, (jeez this is taking a long time) as for my 2nd amendment rights ... Yes, I'm very concerned about it. If everyone else wants to boycot S&W because of "the agreement" because they feel that will teach them a lesson or something ... fine, I don't have a problem with that. PERSONALLY, I don't think it's going to change anything (I'm sure S&W is already well aware of what many gun owners think of their actions and they will do their best to avoid something similar in the future ... after all, they are in the business of selling guns ... mostly to civilians). And, I'd like to pick up a couple S&Ws in case the rest of you do put them out of business. I happen to prefer S&W. I own an Anaconda ... which I like very much, but, I would also like a 686 ... and whatever the hell else I feel like.

Later.
 
If it's any help I looked a the 686 and 686 p. I setlled o the 686 with 4" barrel.
Actual my wife did. I can't comment on the star as they seemed o.k. on both guns I saw. The one I purchased was used and had a stainless trigger and hammer, which I thought was better. Also it had the firing pin on the hammer. I detailed it last night and found it to be very tight and well machined. The DA trigger is al little heavy, but SA is almost scary.

If you say revolver the first thing that comes to my mind is Smith & Wesson.
 
Yes I have seen stars that looked like they were installed in the rough milled condition and never finished. Burrs, rough surfaces etc. Also hands that were too long.

All from recent production.

If you are going to get a new one, check it out as carefully as you would a used one with unknown history.

Seen in recent guns.
Overtorqued barrels, evidenced by visible ring in bore even with the barrel/frame interface.
Rough chambers
Chamber throats assorted sizes in same gun.
Unfinished or non existant barrel cones.
Timing off in some chambers.
Bolt drag on cylinder
Improperly fitted side plates.
etc etc.

Sam
 
Deuce: I won't try to convince you buying a 686 is a bad idea, since it's the best wheelgun ever made. I am also fed up with the boycott BS, and have already had all the skin scorched off my body for implying that maybe the problem wasn't that comapnies like SW chicken out and cave in when face by extermination via litigation under the heavy hand of the Federal Justice Department.... maybe the problem is the government shouldn't be doing that in the first place? Well any way, you're correct that it's irrelevant to your question:

The only difference I am aware of between the 686 and 686 Plus models is the cylinder (and star of course). You will find differences between model revisions of any SW revolver (the dash number after the model number) and I could not rattle off the various implications of -1, -2, etc.

I agree that there has been a quality dropoff between 1997 (when I bought my 686) and 2000 (when I bought my model 66). Not just the star, but cylinder end shake, trigger stiffness, etc. I don't think the newer guns are as well fitted as the old ones in general. Or maybe, in the past guns that were not perfect were very rare and now they are more common (?) Any way, some of the thanks probably goes to the boycott. SW is in deep financial straights which means they ship anything that shoots to get cash flow to pay their loans off. I've been at companies in that condition, and quality is always the first casualty.

BTW: I also own a late-60's model 10 and the fitting and finish on that is perfect (lock up is dead tight, not a flaw in the bright nickel finish, trigger is very smooth). I wish they built them all like that gun.:)
 
You can tell that some of the members of this forum are older and are suffering from memory loss. Seem to have forgotten the Punta Gorda regime at Smith & Wesson in the 80'. Worst years in firearm quality in the history of the firm. Anyone comparing those years with today is not only fooling themselves, but trying to pass the same misconception to others.

If you are trying to decide between the six and seven shot, get the seven. It has better resale and a lighter action.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

Sounds like, aside from the cylinder, theres no difference between the 686 and 686P ... at least, between comparable guns.

Interesting info Sam & bounty. I was hoping the star I saw was an isolated incident. I looked at a few more S&Ws over lunch today and I don't think any two, supposedly identical, S&W revolvers are the same. I've been checking out the stars now, and, it looks like they're custom fitted for each cylinder (though sometimes not very well ... I saw one that had a "point" (on the star) that was off by at least a 1/32" from the chamber.

I think you're right bounty ... it makes sense that when times are tough, anything that isn't directly generating profit is thrown out (or, at least, suffers).

That's a shame. I like my Anaconda, but I don't care for the way the cylinder "ejector" (forgive me, I'm not up on the proper terms) is made to look like part of the cylinder ... kind of corny to me. I'll take another look at the Colts and see if I can't convince myself that a Python is worth the money. I'm sure Rugers are nice too, but I just can't seem to bring myself to buy one over a S&W or Colt.

I'd still like to get a 686P (may as well have 7 over 6), but, after what I've seen and heard, I'll certainly be very careful.

Thanks again.

P.S. bounty, I agree ... the problem is with our government, for the people, by the people ... not one CEO's idiocy (I think that's how it's spelled ... he he) ... wasn't he replaced after that anyhow? Best quote I've heard relating to this sort of thing: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers" (that's referring to the anti's ... not the boycotters ... I respect their right to "give notice" to S&W ... just not to treat me like an idiot if I don't agree)

Later.
 
Sold a lot of Bangor Punta and Lear Seigler era Smiths. No, they were generally not up to the standards set when it was still a family business. But, they were also generally better overall than the later Tompkins products. Very good value for the bucks.

The quality consistancy had become noticably worse prior to the signing of the agreement.

I have personal Smiths from all eras, except post agreement, and don't have to depend on memory to see the difference.

Sam
 
Deuce: I respect anybody's right to hold any opinion including the boycotters. But, it scares me about the message we are sending the government. Maybe nobody else noticed but the attack plan being used against gun makers is the same one they used against Philip Morris (cigarette maker). Whether you like cigarettes or not, the attack plan is this: get the Feds to align with the state's Attorney's General and file massive lawsuits for "damages" against the company(s). The suits are unfounded, so most are thrown out until one sticks (remember the billion dollar judgement for wrongful death against Philip Morris?) Then, you name ALL the companies in the suit and when they are facing death through years of litigation, you offer the deal. Philip Morris rolled over like a whipped dog... don't remember the gun owners who smoke boycotting them (?) Anyway, in Kalifornia we are seeing the front end of this... ludicrous lawsuits against gun makers anytime some lunatic shoots somebody. The calm in the storm is because Bush got elected and appointed an Attorney General who shut the process down (for now). But that doesn't kill it, just put's it into hibernation.

I wish we were all smart enough to see it's important the message we send the gun makers is : "When they come after you, we'll stick with you." And the message to the governement should be: "We know what you're up to and we aren't going to stand for it." and then back it up at the the ballot. Every gun maker that gets put out of business put's the feds that much closer to their goal.
 
Deuce, I feel that your initial post on this thread was clearly sprinkled with vinegar. You're new here, so perhaps you aren't yet aware that this is a forum that thrives on honey. That's all that Rock Jock was trying to say, IMHO.:)

As to your first post,
110SE answered you:
I have 686 plus with 3" . The distance the hand travels to rotate the cylinder on the 7 shot is shorter than the 6 shot. Hence, the double action pull is shorter and quicker which translates to lighter imho. This is one of my favorite carry guns.
Click to expand...
as well as ViLLain:
Both guns are identical. And yes, the only difference is the number of holes in the cylinder. The seven shot has the advantage of a shorter throw, so the action may feel lighter.
Click to expand...

In all fairness, I think you just missed what they were saying. There is a certain feel and rythm to the 6rd. Smiths in the K/L/N frame series. When a shooter is used to that feel, as many here are, the difference in the 7rd 'Plus' model can be quite noticeable. The trigger travels slightly less for the cylinder to reach lock-up, and then somewhat farther to the hammer fall. I'm not saying it's bad(all else being equal), just different. If you are fairly new to revolvers, this difference will be of NO consequence to you. Indeed, why NOT go for the 7th shot? I have no problem with your choice, or reasoning.

Would it be OK if I were to encourage you to a buy a used one?;)
 
Victor,

Apparently I'm coming off as a bit of an ogre now.

Just to clear things up (again ... no vinegar intended ... just let it go), Villian's (excellent, I thought) post was made nearly 2 hours after I started this new thread. And, I already knew what the other guy was saying about the trigger pull.

I knew the 686 and 686P were very similar. I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. Thanks Villian.

I only thought that by clearly stating that I did not wish to get any responses which were not directly related to my question, that I would simply only get directly related responses or no responses. I didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings.

And, aside from rock_jock, and you, to a certain extent, I think I was successful in that endeavor.

Later.
 
Deuce,

"The other guy" talking about the trigger pull of the 686
was me; Yes, that's right, ole' Ala Dan himself. Thought
I was helping; but guess I was wrong? But, after you
mentioned it, I checked the star on my 686. Looks like
it's normal to me; with no burr's, nick's, or tit's sticking
out like a sore thumb. Sorry, for the misunderstanding.

Respectfully,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
Dan,

You shouldn't be sorry about any misunderstanding. Now that it's clear to me there is no other difference between the 686 and 686P, it seems like kind of a stupid question in the first place.

You had no way of knowing what I did or didn't know, and, in light of the way I asked the question, I think your response was perfectly valid ... just not what I was looking for. And, mostly due to other responses, I thought I would have better success restating my question.

A local gun shop is going to let me know next week if they're going to get a 4" 686P in so I can check it out. We discussed me ordering one and from what they had on the shelf, I made it clear I didn't want to commit to a gun before checking it out ... they didn't want to submit, but, by the end of it, he said to call him next week. I'll just have to make monthly visits to the gun shops and hope for the best.

Thanks.
 
Kernel,
Thanks for the tip. Just the same, I'm glad I didn't have to sort through 1393 matches.

Victor,
No hard feelings. Thanks for the welcome.

Everyone,
In case anyone's interested, I called Colt ... they said they'll be making a 4" Python later this year (not that I'll necessarily buy one ... just checking my options).

Later.
 
Deuce, I feel that your initial post on this thread was clearly sprinkled with vinegar. You're new here, so perhaps you aren't yet aware that this is a forum that thrives on honey. That's all that Rock Jock was trying to say, IMHO
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
Hi Deuce,

I think I can answer this very well for you. I had this same conversation with Ron Powers. In case you didn't know, Ron is considered by many to be THE gunsmith for Smith & Wesson revolvers. He's done four for me and I can't complain. He has been doing Smith & Wesson revolvers since he started in the gunsmithing business in 1957.

Very experienced to say the least.

Basically put, he is not very complimentary of the later model Smith & Wesson 686s in general with the use of MIM parts and other reasons other people have outlined here.

The main DIFFERENCE is that the action of the 686 Plus has a shorter throw due to the lower amount of rotation required to bring the more closely spaced 7-shot cylinder into alignment with the barrel. As a result, the action will not be as smooth once a gunsmith has done an action job. If you use your S&W revolvers mostly out of the box this probably won't matter to you. If you have most of your "using guns" tuned by a competent gunsmith then you might care.

Overall, Ron thought it made an outstanding self defense gun, but had reservations for a full competition (e.g., PPC) conversion.

As this is a very subjective choice I'd suggest you pull the trigger on both and see what you think.

Otherwise the two are very alike.

For what it is worth, Ron strongly recommended buying an older (read pre-MIM parts) S&W if you plan on having an action job done on it. As has been stated here before, the MIM parts eventually come apart if they are "smithed" too much to try and smooth the parts. The S&W using MIM parts are mostly the last few years if I am not mistaken, but you might check with S&W to be sure.

Good shooting...

- Anthony
 
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