642 problem

"I suck:("

Bullhockey.

You just did'nt realize what a bear a snubbie can be to shot well.

They fact you are practicing with it and adapting your shooting technique to it's characteristics means you definitely do not suck.

I own a Taurus Model 85 Ultralight that is slightly heavier then the gun you are shooting but once I got used to it,I love my little snubbie.

Five shots in a man's chest at up to ten yards.

Everytime.

Just gotta grip the crxp out of it and see that front sight.

Helps to memorize the angle of your wrist to the angle of the sights aligning and to align the sights as you draw it up too.

And lock that arm out to at the same angle everytime in a way that is natural for you to support the gun back down in recoil.

Only problem at the range for me in I find myself buying way too much 38 special reloads to have more shooting fun with.

I shoot with reduced size human shape targets.

If you are going to use the gun for self defense-you might as wel;l shoot at something with a human shape so you can get yourself used to hitting that form of target.

And I don't just shoot in the chest area either.

Good groupings in other areas can stop an assailant very quickly.
 
I do find the newer J's shoot a tad high with 158s. Just shot 96.8 with a new 642 on our state 50 round course with 158 FMJ +P CCI. The few shots out of the Q "bottle" were a few high ones just barely over the right shoulder at 25 yards...135 Gold Dots are pretty much dead on. I've been shooting J Frames for about 35 years. They DO take a bit of getting used to and the recoil IS NOT fun after several rounds. They are however, with practice, excellent little guns.
 
Normally I can hit my target 5 out of 7 times with my 1911 at 50 yds and 7 out of 7 at 25 yds. With my 642 I could not hit the paper plate at 5 yds. Thats why they are called belly guns. You walk up and shove it in their stomach and squeeze the trigger.

I was totally surprised that I was so innaccurate with my 642. I put crimson trace laser on and am now good to 10 yds with it. You need to dry fire the heck out of it with caps on so that the action will get a lot smoother.

A friend of mine has no problem with it but he is used to snubbies and practices constantly. My 1911s are full size so I have no problem with them. As advised, you more than likely, need months of practice with it like I do.
 
Pick up a bag of A-Zoom snap caps ( purple looking ones ) and dry fire a LOT! You'll get more comfortable with your gun, you'll smooth the action a little, you can really work on your sight picture/ sight alignment as you're pulling the trigger, build up your trigger finger.............just hang in there and keep after it ;)

Mike
 
I just picked up a S&W model 60-14. With the 38 +p loads it's a fun gun to shoot, but switch over to the 357 loads and Dude, It gets meat on both ends,:eek: and not fun to shoot. But I must say that they grow on you and I really like carrying it. Just work on the 642 by dry firing and it will smooth out for you.
 
Traditionally fixed-sight .38 revolvers are "normalled" to shoot point of aim with 158 gr bullets, but I read on one of the gun forums recently that due to the popular of lighter bullets Smith had begun adjusting them for 125 gr. It would make sense that if you're shooting high with 158's you might be right on with lighter bullets which shoot lower than the heavier weights.
 
On the art of hitting things with a snubby, it can be done...with practice. That's the rub--it hurts to practice with carry loads. If you handload it's easy to deal with that problem. My 158 gr carry loads run about 815 fps. I came up with a practice load that runs around 600 fps with the same bullet, hits close to the same point of aim, and is pleasant to shoot in my 642, Cobra and LCR. If you don't handload there are options--a .22 J frame will allow you to develop technique painlessly and inexpensively. Cowboy loads are pretty tame, especially in the lighter bullet weights. If you're stuck shooting full power loads a shooting glove eliminates most of the pain from the experience. Bear in mind regarding accuracy, you only have to be good enough to hit a watermelon-sized target out to 7 yards or so...not a high bar. I think a snubby .38 is the perfect Concealed carry gun...reliable, great power to weight ratio, and easy to carry and conceal.
 
It's not uncommon to hear even experienced revolver shooters express how they have a harder time shooting the diminutive 5-shot J's.

The very attributes that make the J's so attractive and useful for lawful concealed carry roles also tend to make them harder to shoot well as well for many folks.

I own over half a dozen J-frames. I can generally shoot the standard (or smaller) wooden clothespins off the cardboard target backboards at 5-7 yards (using a DAO snub), using 125gr, 130gr, 135gr or 158gr loads (standard & +P).

Short barreled J's can be very accurate. It's "us" (the shooters) that can have issues in wringing optimal accuracy out of them. ;)

I've seen a lot of J-frame shooters unintentionally raise that front ramp/post higher above the rear notch than they intended (so they can see it), and then get POI's higher than where they thought they were aiming. Especially with the older J's, with the narrow front ramps, but even with the newer guns with the wide ramps. The light finish on the 642's may even make it worse for some folks, as the light finish rear notch can "blend" under some light conditions, and you may not realize you're elevating the front sight above the rear notch.

I've found the XS front night sights on my M&P 340's, with their nicely shaped U-notch at the rear, make aimed shooting easier and faster than compared to my other J's (even those with front ramps painted different colors).

As far as what S&W does with their guns, check out page 38 of your safety manual. It states that their revolvers with barrels less than 3" are expected to meet an accuracy certification based upon several handguns selected at random. They list average accuracy tests of 1.7"@ 7 yards; 3.9"@ 14 yds & 6.3"@ 21 yds. Some guns might do better, of course.

My assorted DAO J's can be used to keep hits within an area which corresponds to the "head" of a qual silhouette at 20-25 yds, shooting 2-handed, unsupported. I can consistently hit a steel silhouette at 50 yds with my J's, using 130gr +P loads, although as I mentioned earlier, it's easier to do with my M&P 340's (due to the XS sight & rear U-notch) which "centers" the front sight for both elevation & windage. Not quite as fast with the J's with the other sights.

If you can find an experienced revolver shooter who can help you (especially if it's an experienced instructor), you might find it easier to learn the handgun shooting fundamentals involved with shooting DA revolvers ... and especially the smaller & lighter 5-shot snubs.

Just some thoughts.
 
Suck

I, too, sucked when I first got my 642, but with a fair amount of practice I can now do at least acceptably well with my Airweight. The snubs and especially the airweights are tough to shoot at first. The +P ammo makes it harder. I am going to try standard pressure SWC ammo to see if I can do better. The only 158gr swc I could find was Bitterroot Valley from Cheaper Than Dirt. Has anyone tried these? The only experience I have with BVAC ammo is a few shots in a 45-70.
 
The 642 is hard to shoot accurately. I have one and it takes a lot of concentration to make hits, the gun is right on the money as far as the sights. I recently bought an LC9 and after a little practice it's a lot easier to shoot than the 642. Practice, practice, practice.
 
I had a CT grip when I first acquired a 442, and used it for extensive dry fire practice (as has already been recommended in this thread.) All that dry fire made accurate shooting with the little snubby plausible. I wouldn't want to have to take a 25 yd headshot with mine, but it generally isn't a problem to stay in the 5pt torso area of a B27 at 23 yards (my LGS range lost 2 yards when they upgraded their backstop and air circulation system - used to be 25 yds).

This is especially true since I installed an Apex trigger spring kit (pull went from 14lbs to 9lbs, and smoother, too) and put on some oversized Altamont round butt grips with a little finger rest (I have long fingers, and factory snubby stocks don't give me all that solid a grip).

But the practice mattered much more than the customization.
 
I shot better the other day, I was able to shoot 18 of 25 rounds on target @ 7 yards, groupings where bad, its the DAO and the fact its a 1 inch 3/7???? barrel j frame.
I don't plan on shooting past 7 yards with a back up gun, these are for close range self defence, my Glock can keep baseball groupings @ 7 yards easily and punch the same hole easy.

I go show you some photos


The double target is the 38 shooting
The single target is the Glock 19, notice the same holes shot out? very good gun!
The bad groupings from the Glock is me jerking the trigger.
 

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People have already mentioned that it is critical for the top of the front sight to be level with the ridges. It's common to leave it a little high so you can see it. Another common error is to cover the target with the sights. You can't see the target that way. I had to learn the hard way on my Sig that you want to stack the bullseye directly on top of the sight. The light bulb came on after I was actually frustrated enough to re-read the owner's manual. It was right there in black and white, and with a drawing too. The difference was dramatic and immediate.
 
It's not an insurmountable feat to learn to keep your shots in an 8 1/2" paper at 10 yds. rapid fire with the 642. When it's light enough to see your sights.

Add the CT laser, and the gun over comes the iron sight problems in dark stairwells, parking garages, and basically anywhere indoors out of sunlight. The laser capability takes it to a new dimension.

I have two 640-1's in .357. 1 1/8th barrels. The latest is the fluted bbl., and dove tailed rear sight with front ramp--both tritium. I'd have preferred the Xpress dot, that's been successful on their guns.

The other is standard fixed rear sight tunnel, but with Xpress standard dot night sight. Frankly, it's faster than the former--at least for my eyes.

NOTE: Not recommended that you lighten the hammer springs on these MIM 640-1s. The internal hammer is smaller and travels a much shorter arc than external hammer guns. You may get away with a slightly lighter spring on the 642, but don't go too much. Not sure why it takes to lighter springs more readily than the 640-1.
 
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I've read about light strikes with lighter springs, and had some people tell me I should not have installed the Apex in my 442 if it is a carry gun (which it often is).

All I can say is that at a measured 9lbs (again, down from measured 14lbs pre-Apex), I have put probably 1000 rds through it, and have not had a single light strike.

I would say that if the trigger is lightened at all, the gun should go through some serious T&E before it is carried, just to make sure it wasn't taken down too light.

I put 200 rounds through mine as the initial test, post-modification, prior to carrying the gun as a CCW.
 
I put 200 rounds through mine as the initial test, post-modification, prior to carrying the gun as a CCW.
Click to expand...

Not just the amount of ammo. It's the brand, also, since different primers are used.

For example, my handloads are a pretty good test with the Win. primers I use. Some of the "budget" ammo have hard primers.

DPX uses CCI, which is one of the hardest to detonate. When I look and see good primer dents, I'm happy. When I see some with little dimples, it concerns me---even if they detonate.

My 640-1 was tuned by an excellent smithie, and he installed a STANDARD Wolf mainspring for about a 10 to 10.5 lb. pull. I experienced light primer hits with some bulk UMC ammo, and then one or two misfires. I reinstalled the factory spring, and have had no problems, even if the trigger pull is 11 lb. At least it's smooth.

I don't want my guns to fail to fire ANYTHING.


My 642 was smoothed up and tuned by another good gunsmith. The trigger pull was 9.5 lb. It worked, by I installed a STANDARD mainspring, and the pull increased to 10 lb. A little more piece of mind.

Be careful, and VARY the ammo you test it with and make sure you test the same primers as your carry ammo.

NOTE: If my J frames test ok with CCI primers, then I'd trust them with anything.

Incidentally, there are three different firing pin lengths for J-frames. Your smithie could probably tune it with a lighter mainspring by using a longer pin.
However, I've come to favor the philosophy of leaving the factory spring alone, and using proper polishing of internal parts, and maybe a slight reduction of the rebound spring to get the pull down. Smooth is more important than pull weight.

And last: I like a light smooth pull as well as the next guy and some of my revolvers are tuned that way. My M21 Thunder Ranch .44 has a smooth reliable pull of about 8 lb. The hammer tension, tested by my smithie, meets S&W factory standards.

On the range, the heavier pull on my J frames (or any revolver) isn't an issue. I just don't notice it when practicing rapid fire SD shooting. I do notice it during dry fire practice.
 
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