62gr SS109 Expensive now and .308 cheaper than dirt?

J

Jamie Young

New member
I've heard the stories about how all the foreign countries
are getting rid of there .308 ammo and switching to the .223 or the 5.45x39. I think that seems to be a pretty legitimate reason .308 got so cheap. I see all the good SS109 ammo going for close to $300 and Surplus .308 for $130-$180 per 1000. Do you think the SS109 ammo will get cheaper or is it going to stay the same?
Also Does anyone ever get bothered by the fact All of us Gun people fund the Russian and Chinese Militaries by buying that Cheap Wolf Crap and all our SKS parts. Its really bothering me and I'm totally avoiding Russian and Chinese Parts and Ammo. I think all of you should too.
 
A valid point

SodaPop, I'd also noticed the prices on the various surplus ammo so you may well be on to the reason why. I'd think the .223 surplus will hang about where it is unless something prompts it to fall, like a big supply suddenly appearing from a NATO or other source, etc.

I also completely agree regarding the funding of foreign nations with our shooting dollars... I've never owned an SKS and I've never touched Wolf ammo for the simple fact of who, where, and how it's made. Plenty of high quality ammo from Federal and Remington out there at decent prices and I didn't spend all this on firearms to feed them questionable ammo...

But... friend from work in the spring wanted help purchasing a used .45 1911 pattern. He's a retired Marine Colonel, and we see a Norinco 1911 in OK shape. He keeps saying 'price' and I keep saying 'China'... price won. :(

Darryl
‘You will never go wrong underestimating the intelligence of the American people’ - - H.L. Mencken.'

(edited for typo)
 
Russian parts and ammo...

Molon Labe. 'Nuff said.


akscan2.jpg
 
How good is that SPanish stuff in your opinion?
From the two sources I have I heard it is not as good as USGI or IMI. If I'm going to get the SCBT ammo I'm only getting the best.
 
What it means...

"Molon Labe" is a reply from an ancient battle, loosely translated as "Come and take them", meaning our arms. Come and take my Soviet-pattern AK-47. As an American, I will defend your First Amendment right with my Second Amendment right, regardless of where that TOOL was manufactured, and will do so even when such hypocracy as the quoted statement is floated out there as the moral gospel:

"Also Does anyone ever get bothered by the fact All of us Gun people fund the Russian and Chinese Militaries by buying that Cheap Wolf Crap and all our SKS parts. Its really bothering me and I'm totally avoiding Russian and Chinese Parts and Ammo. I think all of you should too."


I think all of you should worry about yourselves, and what you're doing to create a rift among gun owners, because you're playing into the hands of anti-gunners, truth be known. Many new shooters were brought into the fold by the attractive pricing of the SKS and it's 7.62x39 ammo. If only folks really understood what they were saying by casting aspersion at the firearms choices of others...

But, as the moderators will soon point out, that's a topic that belongs elsewhere, which is where I'll pick up this particular subject.
 
As Always its hard to make a point without people getting carried away. I personally have owned Russian SKS Rifles one Russian Saiga and Night Vision Scopes. I've spent plenty of money on Russian ammo and SKS accessories. I'm not saying get rid of your guns "Lets Not Get the Paranoia thing Going" I'm saying Buying ammo that is being sent directly to the US from countries that have Nukes pointed at us bothers me.
I think if we were buying guns out of Russian warehouses or taking stockpiled ammo thats ok. But Funding the Russian Military "Directly" threw purchasing New Ammo is something We Americans should avoid. Were not disarming Russia or China we are Funding them. I think we should be thinking about who we are buying and selling weapons to a little bit better. Its also making me sick to see all those Palestinians in Israel with M-16's shooting at a country thats suppose to be an Allie of ours. I don't have a problem pulling out an SKS and defending myself with it or my country. I have a problem paying for ammo from somebody who's got nukes pointed at me.
 
I don't get it - you get mad when America's enemies use an American rifle - let them get as mad as you when they see their enemies use their rifle.

As for your SKS - your REAL enemies don't WANT you to have ammunition for it. And the money the Russians etc. get from you is miniscule compared to that which they get from your tax money anyway.

Your SKS is useless without ammo. The less it costs, the more you can get. If you ever need it, it is worth more than the $80/crate it costs you now, and is more of a liability to your enemies than the (probably) $20/crate (remember, those things are heavy, and are shipped intl and go through a lot of hands) they get for them.


Battler.
 
Come and take them?

As the original respondant to SodaPop's thread and one who agreed with his observations I'm a bit surprised that 'Russian ammo sucks because its Russian and it sucks' has become 'come and take them'. And how questioning the practice of funding foreign governments through the purchase of ammunition, parts and weapons will suddenly create a 'rift among gun owners' and play into the hands of anti-gunners...

The connect-the-dots on that one sure must have looked interesting...

SodaPop raised a valid point, that purchases were aiding nations not exactly friendly to our own. It does. So 'molon labe' for that? Those who want to purchase Russian or Chinese, have a happy. But if someone points out the monetary facts and questions the reasoning of doing it don't start with the gun-owner rifts and anti-gunners dancing about garbage. Want a AK? Have 2 or 3... I'm quite happy with my ArmaLite AR-10 and Bushie AR-15's... to each is own.

To belittle the thoughts and observations of another, even ones we don't particularly agree with is beneath that which we are...

Darryl

‘None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free’ - - Goethe
 
There was more to the discussion at hand than the quality of the ammo. The political tone of supplying foreign nations with our shooting dollar, lamenting the fact that a Norinco 1911A1 was sold based on it's attractive price. That, in conjunction with somebody here raising heck over the Chinese Ithaca shotgun clones, and questioning the patriotism of those who would buy them, is what made me reply, it smacked of a morality lesson.

It's like telling me, just because I have a German name, and own a Luger, I'm a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer, freedom of choice be damned. And I have exercised my freedom of choice, to include some more expensive non-Communist toys, like a pre-ban Colt Competition HBAR, M14NM, 1903A4, Garand, BM-59, and the like.

We all collect based on our individual reasons, whatever they may be. But to tell others they should avoid stuff based simply on the significance attached to it is less than reasonable.

Now, truth be known, my Bulgarian AK has fired over 5000 rounds to date, and every one of them has been my own handloads, made on my Dillon 550. I've done the same for every of my guns in 20+ different chamberings, save for the rimfires. I've got several thousand rounds of that green-lacquered surplus 7.62x39 stuff, sealed in the tins, sitting in reserve for when TSHTF. It isn't that good, especially compared to US-made or my handloads, but it's there for when I need it.
 
I do see your point

Gewehr98, I do understand point you've raised regarding the patriotism issue. As far as myself and the Norinco, my concern was the quality of the piece. It was a concern that some of the firearms coming out of China were not exactly top shelf and this person had allowed $700 for the 1911, and I wanted him to have a top end pistol.

I think it's like my parents generation, it was always the 'germans, italians, and the japanese'... now it's Russia and China.

I personally love German and Italian guns. Love my German car. I always tell everyone I'm a snob... not a true snob, I just love guns.

I do agree with SodaPop on the ammo... nasty. The SKS I've never owned only because I always thought it to be ugly... see, a snob ;)

There will always be those who equate ownership with patriotism... remember the early '80? Buy American cars, not Japanese. I figure a real American gets what they want, forget the closed minds. Your conscience is your guide.

Darryl
 
For God Sake I'm not questioning Anyones Patriotism!! This isn't a 2nd ammendment or Patriotism discussion.

(Battler) I Agree with you but your talking about our enemies in this country. If Clinton ever tried to stop the importation of Surplus ammo into this country I would say buy up whatever you can get your hands on. But I think we can easily avoid buying 1999 Production Wolf ammo. There are many Eastern Block countries that have stockpiles of ammo that we can buy from. Romania, Czechoslovakia, East German, Poland, Even South American and South African. With all the online ammo sites and all the Cheaper than Dirt magazines we have many countries to pick surplus ammo from. Now I see a lot of .233 62gr ammo coming out of Russia.Maybe if I buy up all the Russian AKs and Ammo And give it all to Gewehr98 as a peace offering he'll see my point. I might keep a few for myself.

[Edited by SodaPop on 11-24-2000 at 10:22 PM]
 
I know you're not questioning anybody's patriotism, SodaPop. I apologize, I didn't mean for it to sound like you were. Your post, and the reply, was just fuel for furthering a discussion started on the Shotgun forum, that smacked of a total lesson in morality.

At one time, I passed up a Chinese Norinco M14SA receiver, to get an Armscorp M14NM receiver, professing there was no way on Gawd's Green Earth I would buy a Chinese gun or receiver. Then I was bitten by the 1911 bug, specifically for IPSC matches. At the time (1990 or so) Colt, just entering receivership again for the umpteenth time, was having very bad QC problems with their Series 80 guns never mind the litigation-conscious extra lockwork, and Springfield Inc. wasn't doing a whole lot better. Enter the Norinco 1911A1. Several gunsmiths I conferred with pointed out that they were actually quite workable for custom competition rigs. So I bought 4 of them, for $219.95 each, through the FFL of the McClellan AFB Outdoor Recreation office. I still own one, it's now a Limited Class IPSC and carry gun, it keeps just the frame and slide, everything else being Kart, McCormick, Videcki, BoMar, or Ed Brown. My wife owns another, it was rebuilt into her carry gun without quite so many trick parts. Then the gun rags picked up on how great a deal the Norinco pistols were. Everybody had to have one, and there are a lot of them out there still.


It's all very subjective when it comes to where a person's money should go without giving the enemies of freedom the upper hand. I don't condone the oppressive foreign regimes any more than any other American, to some degree I'm even more cognizant, because I'm entering my 15th year as active-duty Air Force, and my security clearance reminds me of what we're up against to this day. But I'd wager to say that the money spent on the software for my Windows NT computer here, along with Microsoft Office and other code, could go that direction. It fills the pockets of Bill Gates, allowing him to donate more than I could ever hope of making in my entire lifetime to the anti-gun causes in Washington State. That would be cause enough to boycott his particular regime, because I don't even get a SKS, M14SA, or 1911 out of the deal. Although I am in fact working on RedHat Linux for this box right now...
 
Good now were all at peace with our Guns and Ammo!!

With all the squabbling we did here did anyone notice my post asking about the Spanish SS109? From what I've read its not the top of the line. But I've only heard one source. Anyone?
 
Yeah, can anybody answer SodaPop's question?

As to who made what where, and "buy American", many metals are imported from elsewhere and the local politics are unknown. You have no way of knowing where the steel of many US guns come from, or the brass of cartridges; most copper is from South America, along with the bauxite for aluminum. An "American" car may have parts and pieces from any of several places in the Americas outside the US, as well as India and Indonesia. And almost every multi-national corporation headquartered in the U.S. is trying like crazy to increase sales in China and Russia.

By and large, if you like it, buy it--or not, as you see fit.

So answer SodaPop, please.

Art
 
not to blow it out of proportion... BUT

Are the Russians still our enemies? Last I heard the US is sending them a LOT of taxpayer(read "our") money.

Pricy homegrown ammo:
Shoot less/eat Ramen for every meal. Feel good about keeping the money in the country.

El cheapo foriegn ammo:
Shoot more/have better meal selection. Feel good about sharing the wealth with other countries while I'm getting a pretty good bang for the buck.

Now that .308 ammo is cheaper, I'm really bummed I didn't spring for the M1A.
 
The Russians are not exactly the Enemy The Soviet Union was but They Still have Nukes Pointed at Nato Countries and Us. We did undermine them right after the cold war buy giving a lot of there Scientists Jobs in the US but they are on the side of Iraq,Iran,Libya,China,Syria,Serbia and countless African countries. Ask the Russians why they deployed there New "Topal" Nukes last year! ANSWER THE SS109 QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
SodaPop, it's gotta be better than that Malaysian stuff that was out on the market a few years ago. I still have several hundred rounds of it, and was considering selling it to a friend with a bolt .223, it's dirty and not very accurate in my Colt Competition HBAR. If I get a chance I'll do a DejaNews search on Spanish SS109 and see if anybody had experiences, either good or bad, with it. I notice even Dillon is selling that Wolf stuff, no bulk buys on PMP, British Radway Green, or other clean reloadable .223. I'd love to see if Winchester is making a run of 5.56 NATO, I don't even see much of their white box stuff out there...
 
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