6-o-clock-Carry - Input 2.0

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You are kidding . . . maybe the extra second it would take to crouch down is too long for you - OK - I get it.

Thanks for all the help.

Nevermind.
 
Here is a very informative and helpful video on ankle carry and draw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu9YkYjhjpA

This convinced me to purchase an ankle holster to try with my light weight Ruger LCR.
But what gun are you carrying?
Beretta 92 may be too big for ankle carry.


Don't worry, some of the old guys can't bend over to tie their shoelace, so they think that no one should use an ankle holster!LOL:D
 
I don't get it. You got 3 pages of posts saying it's not a good idea and you start another one to prove what ?
I can't see any advantage in 6 o'clock carry vs 4-5 oclock. Other then being lot more uncomfortable and slower.
 
malibu said:
where were we . . .

6 o'clock IWB seems favorable except if you were to be jumped from behind . . . no small thing certainly.

What about leg ankle holster ?
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Ok, I know you seem dead set on Small Of Back (SOB) carry, but you never really said why?

In general, SOB carry is never reccomended except in the most limited circumstances. It is extremely difficult to remian concealed, as any bend in the waist exposes your weapon. It requires the longest draw, and often requires you to cover non-targets with your weapon in the process. It can be literally crippling, or at best termporarily debilitating, if you fall onto your back, with your weapon between you and your spine. There really are no significant advantages to SOB carry for the average gun owner compared to Inside the WaistBand (IWB) or Outside the WaistBand (OWB) carry.

Additionally, ankle carry is only marginally better. Ankle carry often limits you to smaller pistols, dictates wearing long pants (which depending on your location may not be feasible, shout out Deep South in the Summer), and requires a more complicated and time consuming draw. Ankle carry, however, works very well while driving, as it places the gun in the most convenient place for a driver to grab without fighting a seatbelt.

In short, I think SOB and Ankle carry have their place, but you really need to try to make IWB, OWB, or pocket carry work for you. They are the most common because they work better than any other alternative for the average gun owner. If you're having trouble with making IWB or OWB work, I agree with what others have suggested both on this thread and the old one, a quality belt makes all the difference, and a quality holster makes it perfect.

I am also reminded of the paraphrased words of James Yeager (please don't hate me for bringing him up, I know he's a poor example of a reasonable gun owner, but even a blind pig finds a truffle sometimes) "Wearing a gun isn't comfortable, it's comforting"
 
Many moons ago there was a bomb threat on campus of a tech school in Phoenix, AZ. We waited in the parking lot and an instructor sat on a hood, his SOB piece became clearly visible, a snub revolver.
 
You are kidding . . .

Thanks for all the help.

Nevermind.
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Ok, whatever.

Small of the back may look slick on TeeVee. Quite apart from the possibility of injury (which sounds plausible, but I otherwise have no opinion on), SOB draw can't be anything but longer and more difficult than the more conventional locations others have suggested.

Get one if you want. IMHO, it'll end up being another unused holster in the holster box.

maybe the extra second it would take to crouch down is too long for you - OK - I get it.
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So, does anyone have any insight that wasn't stated in the closed thread? If not, I don't see the point in having a second one.
 
Tom Servo said:
So, does anyone have any insight that wasn't stated in the closed thread? If not, I don't see the point in having a second one.
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While typically I would agree, I think it would benefit to have the OP explain why he is so focused on SOB carry. While I agree that it is not the best option for most people, perhaps if he could make his case for why it would be best for him, we can make more appropriate suggestions.
 
I don't have any insight but do what feels right for you. I carried a full sized 1911 in a horizontal SOB rig for over a year and despite the loud warnings of everyone on the web I never fell on my back and I still walk unassisted. The same type of argument can be made that you shouldn't carry at all because you could accidently shoot yourself. The way the other thread explained it, vertical and right pointing grip, seems awkward to me, but if it works for you, enjoy.
 
Having seen pictures of SOB carry I have two observations. The models in the picture were thin (not overweight in the least), and could draw the gun with either hand. However, it would seem to me that sitting in a car seat and some other types of chairs would make such an arraignment uncomfortable despite the fact that SOB looked so inviting in the pictures. I can see it in a situation where a person is standing all the time like a clerk in a gun store, etc. But, for daily carry, it would seem to be not such a great thing to do...even if I was thin enough to be able to draw with either hand, or still flexible enough (at 72, I am not) to even draw with the strong hand from the SOB.
 
Thanks for all the help.

Nevermind
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Pretty sure this means that the OP isn't getting the responses he wanted and has therefore abandoned the thread. Regardless, I'll put in my $.02.

For me the big issue is the potential spinal injury. Fast draw from any position can be trained. Yes, I know that 3 o'clock is inherently faster, but with practice, the difference has the potential to be negligible. Most of the other issues, such as printing, where or at whom the muzzle is pointed during drawing, etc., have solutions that can solve the issues. Even if you solve all of those problems, however, there is still the danger of spinal injury, and that is the deal breaker for me. I have had spinal surgery twice to repair damage from falling on my back, and I had no foreign object causing the damage to be centered on my spine when I fell. Had I been wearing a gun SOB, I likely would not be walking today. It just doesn't seem to be worth the risk.
 
Posted by OkieCruffler:
I carried a full sized 1911 in a horizontal SOB rig for over a year and despite the loud warnings of everyone on the web I never fell on my back and I still walk unassisted.
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Proves nothing.

The same type of argument can be made that you shouldn't carry at all because you could accidently shoot yourself.
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That's ludicrous.

There is a risk of very serious spinal injury that can be effectively mitigated by not having a hard object held against the spine. One's not having fallen for a year does not mean that the risk does not exist, and the potential consequences are serious indeed.

JimmyR summed it up well:
It is extremely difficult to remian concealed, as any bend in the waist exposes your weapon. It requires the longest draw, and often requires you to cover non-targets with your weapon in the process. It can be literally crippling, or at best termporarily debilitating, if you fall onto your back, with your weapon between you and your spine.
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Posted by malibu:
....maybe the extra second it would take to crouch down is too long for you - OK - I get it.
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I presume that you are referring to an ankle holster.

If it takes an extra second, heck yes, it's too long.

Do you really want to be crouching, rather than moving laterally, when you are attacked?

Somewhere in one of Massad's books he mentions using an ankle holster. He had to drop onto the floor to access the firearm. That's really not a desirable position.

I could see using an ankle holster for a back-up gun, but not for primary carry.
 
malibu said:
maybe the extra second it would take to crouch down is too long for you - OK - I get it.
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An extra second is a lifetime in a fight. Look up the "Tueller Drill".

Also, crouching down on one knee in front of an attacker is a pretty bad position to be in. Seems like a good way to get kicked in the face. Ankle carry is definitely better than nothing, but it's far inferior to belt carry.

As for small-of-back carry, it has many disadvantages with only one advantage; your gun is well-hidden as long as you're standing straight up. But the draw is slower, it's easy to flag yourself, it's very difficult to draw while riding in a vehicle, the gun prints like crazy when you're sitting down or bending over, you stand a higher chance of injury if you fall down on your back, and it's harder to retain the gun if someone's trying to take it from you.

I think the mod who closed the other thread said it best:
Glenn E. Meyer said:
That carry is not recommended by any modern expert for normal carry. That's the answer.
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In the previous thread, someone said that small of back carry was something that only beginners did. I was one of those once, and I tried it. (1)It takes a great deal of care to avoid sweeping one's own lower trunk and/or bystanders on the draw. (2)Not only is exposure of your handgun when bending quite likely, but it is very easy for your cover garment to hang up on the grip and for the exposure to continue for extended periods before you notice, because the whole thing is behind you. (3)Retention has similar problems. (4)Access is poor from a sitting position, and even worse when you are sitting and belted into a car.

I don't imagine spinal injuries are common, but they are devastating when they occur.

OP, I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish. You logged on, asked a question, and received good advice based on reason and experience, and you seem absolutely determined to ignore the advice and mock the advisers. TFL is a good place to learn for someone who is willing to learn. I have learned a lot here, and I intend to continue learning; I'm only 58 and there is plenty of learning left.
 
6 o'clock IWB seems favorable except if you were to be jumped from behind
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Or, when sitting in a car or in a movie theater seat, etc., etc. Any chair with a back support traps the gun between the seat back and your back. Consider being knocked down in a parking lot, onto your back...how handy is the 6 o'clock carry in that scenario? The only situation where it would be "favorable" is where the person doing it was very thin and able the reach the gun with either hand and/or if the person stands all the time like in, store clerk.
In short, the absolute best example of where a favorable use of the 6 o'clock IWB carry is for advertising holsters...using an attractive, thin female model to sell them.
 
Frankly, I don't care where the OP carries his CC handgun. It has absolutely zero impact on me. If their is an insistence on carrying small of back then do it. Who cares?
 
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